what do you think of this article.
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-altering-body-composition.aspx
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-altering-body-composition.aspx
building muscle and striping fat
- Thread starter faz
- Start date
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
It`s **** trying to sell you some crap test that, surprisingly, is only available from them.Who would`ve thought it? You don`t have to cut calories in order to cut fat my ass. And when your references are antiquated and incredibly few, you know you`re in trouble. I want my 5 minutes back.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
Although some people here will disagree...I have seen it happen with expierenced guys both on and off steroids.
So obviously it can work...however I would think it would require an extreme amount of dedication to detail...and who is going to follow that kind of detail and if they even want to can they do it accurately.
Its much easier to say bulk to 15% and cut to 10%..hehe
So obviously it can work...however I would think it would require an extreme amount of dedication to detail...and who is going to follow that kind of detail and if they even want to can they do it accurately.
Its much easier to say bulk to 15% and cut to 10%..hehe
As usual, I don't have the time right now to read that article, but I'll print it up for later tonight. I have experienced muscle gain with fat loss, not only when I was a newbie to HST, but in my last cycle. In both cases, there is muscle memory that can be cited. However, I did it two other times in a slow bulk and slow cut.
Screw it. I read the article, and it does have a selling point of getting your BMR/RMR tested. I wouldn't blow my money and rely on one random test like that. There are plenty of free equations out there to test your metabolic rate. In my Optimizing Your Caloric Intake thread, I give a few different methods of equating BMR. All in all, there is some error involved, and you need to examine it over a few weeks, adjusting the equations so they fit you.
abarlament
New Member
I wondered when it would come
<div>
(Fausto @ Mar. 27 2007,11:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">bummer!
They should have the HDST approach ans stop trying to make money out of people, although the article is not bad and makes sense, it really pisses on off when you see the advertising at the end
</div>
i know what your saying but knowing this would be
How many calories your body needs to maintain weight
Which macronutrient (fat or carbohydrates) it prefers at rest
Which foods you should eat at which times
Your ideal heartbeat range for burning fat
Where you begin to burn muscle and go catabolic in a fasted state
How many calories you are actually burning at any given heart rate intensity
Your body's own macronutrient split of carbohydrate and fat when exercising
Predict your daily EE
Create and sustain anabolic (and avoid lengthy catabolic) environments
Avoid fasting mode, allow the body to burn fat again, and avoid thyroid down-regulation
(Fausto @ Mar. 27 2007,11:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">bummer!
They should have the HDST approach ans stop trying to make money out of people, although the article is not bad and makes sense, it really pisses on off when you see the advertising at the end
i know what your saying but knowing this would be
How many calories your body needs to maintain weight
Which macronutrient (fat or carbohydrates) it prefers at rest
Which foods you should eat at which times
Your ideal heartbeat range for burning fat
Where you begin to burn muscle and go catabolic in a fasted state
How many calories you are actually burning at any given heart rate intensity
Your body's own macronutrient split of carbohydrate and fat when exercising
Predict your daily EE
Create and sustain anabolic (and avoid lengthy catabolic) environments
Avoid fasting mode, allow the body to burn fat again, and avoid thyroid down-regulation
Fausto
HST Expert
Sure thing Faz, but for some of those things you need to be "plugged in" to know, unless one of these "nerds" could give us a calculation.
Some of them sound really useful, and some we can actually find if we look hard enough, anyway..."pickles" for now...just shut up and lift...and aim for better eating, lifting, goal setting and mindset.
Some of them sound really useful, and some we can actually find if we look hard enough, anyway..."pickles" for now...just shut up and lift...and aim for better eating, lifting, goal setting and mindset.
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
Well after My cut and an SD, I plan on cutting and bulking each cycle from here on out.
I will eat -500 cal/day during the 15s, ramp up to +500 during the first week of the 10s, and eat that way through the post 5s. In theory, the weeks should look like this:
SD: same weight
SD: same weight
15: -1 pound
15: -1 pound
10: same weight
10: +1 pound
5: +1 pound
5: +1 pound
Post: +1 pound
Post: +1 pound
Repeat. Only a three pound gain per cycle, but the p-ratio of those three pounds should be overwhelmingly slanted toward muscle. My only concern will be body composition, so no extra time in the post 5s for strength building -- not for the first time, anyway. Maybe after doing this for a cycle or two, I'll extend the post 5s.
I like the theory, so I'll play guinea pig for a couple cycles and see how it goes.
I will eat -500 cal/day during the 15s, ramp up to +500 during the first week of the 10s, and eat that way through the post 5s. In theory, the weeks should look like this:
SD: same weight
SD: same weight
15: -1 pound
15: -1 pound
10: same weight
10: +1 pound
5: +1 pound
5: +1 pound
Post: +1 pound
Post: +1 pound
Repeat. Only a three pound gain per cycle, but the p-ratio of those three pounds should be overwhelmingly slanted toward muscle. My only concern will be body composition, so no extra time in the post 5s for strength building -- not for the first time, anyway. Maybe after doing this for a cycle or two, I'll extend the post 5s.
I like the theory, so I'll play guinea pig for a couple cycles and see how it goes.
He could still try it out, although I never heard good results from doing that. Cutting during the 15's is the way to go if you are going to do that. If you already have a good estimate of your BMR, then you should have the calories down pat, and hopefully the application matches the theory and you will have good results.
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
<div>
(faz @ Mar. 27 2007,07:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
(faz @ Mar. 27 2007,07:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
bummer!
How many calories your body needs to maintain weight
Which macronutrient (fat or carbohydrates) it prefers at rest
Which foods you should eat at which times
Your ideal heartbeat range for burning fat
Where you begin to burn muscle and go catabolic in a fasted state
How many calories you are actually burning at any given heart rate intensity
Your body's own macronutrient split of carbohydrate and fat when exercising
Predict your daily EE
Create and sustain anabolic (and avoid lengthy catabolic) environments
Avoid fasting mode, allow the body to burn fat again, and avoid thyroid down-regulation</div>
Don`t the bolded parts just, just make you go oomph?Just a little bit?Bad oomph, not good oomph, mind you
Not really, it's sound basic advice when you think about it.
2) Eat decent macronutrients (not too much fat, decent amount of protein)
3) Eat protein/carbs before workout and protein after workout
4) Get you heart pumping a bit faster will burn more calories during a workout
5) Don't run for too long, or run directly after lifting w/o protein - catabolism sucks
7) This one doesn't make too much sense as the ultimate goal is burning maximum calories during a cut
10) Avoid fasting all together
2) Eat decent macronutrients (not too much fat, decent amount of protein)
3) Eat protein/carbs before workout and protein after workout
4) Get you heart pumping a bit faster will burn more calories during a workout
5) Don't run for too long, or run directly after lifting w/o protein - catabolism sucks
7) This one doesn't make too much sense as the ultimate goal is burning maximum calories during a cut
10) Avoid fasting all together
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
Yes, but do you need a finger-up-ass high-tech never before seen protocol that these dudes sell in order to know that?You`re making common sense reccomendations. They`re like:OMG, we`re gonna show you where those 5,5g of Carbs you ingested 23 seconds ago are going, based on our really cool never before seen calculation.
Setting that aside, we all know that there are a billion ways to tackle these issues:low-carbs, IF, high carbs, isocaloric(i`m quoting them in no particular order), more than one accepted way of handling peri-workout nutrition, more than one way of handling cardio etc. Choosing a particular approach has a darned good chance of creating different momentary reactions(even though the end-goals are the same). For example, when you cut carbs the body shifts to ketone then fat oxidation. Have I screwed up my body`s own macronutrient split when cutting?
What I`m trying to say is that it`s bullshit to assume that one can find an all encompasing equation for these kinds of things, and that the authors of that article are cocksuckers trying to sell some snake oilish stuff
Setting that aside, we all know that there are a billion ways to tackle these issues:low-carbs, IF, high carbs, isocaloric(i`m quoting them in no particular order), more than one accepted way of handling peri-workout nutrition, more than one way of handling cardio etc. Choosing a particular approach has a darned good chance of creating different momentary reactions(even though the end-goals are the same). For example, when you cut carbs the body shifts to ketone then fat oxidation. Have I screwed up my body`s own macronutrient split when cutting?
What I`m trying to say is that it`s bullshit to assume that one can find an all encompasing equation for these kinds of things, and that the authors of that article are cocksuckers trying to sell some snake oilish stuff
<div>
(Fausto @ Mar. 27 2007,13:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sure thing Faz, but for some of those things you need to be "plugged in" to know, unless one of these "nerds" could give us a calculation.
Some of them sound really useful, and some we can actually find if we look hard enough, anyway..."pickles" for now...just shut up and lift...and aim for better eating, lifting, goal setting and mindset.
</div>
they are saying that by taking there test they can calculate all these..........
What can you determine from the test information?
1 How many calories your body needs to maintain weight
2 Which macronutrient (fat or carbohydrates) it prefers at rest
3 Which foods you should eat at which times
4 Your ideal heartbeat range for burning fat
5 Where you begin to burn muscle and go catabolic in a fasted state
6 How many calories you are actually burning at any given heart rate intensity
7 Your body's own macronutrient split of carbohydrate and fat when exercising
8 Predict your daily EE
9 Create and sustain anabolic (and avoid lengthy catabolic) environments
10 Avoid fasting mode, allow the body to burn fat again, and avoid thyroid down-regulation
How does this impact the bodybuilder and fitness enthusiast?
The implications of this data are massive. It's a powerful weapon for the trainer to employ to tackle their goals whether it be muscle gain, fat loss, or both. If you know where your body burns fat during cardio you can ultimately make any cardio work you do non-catabolic (preserve muscle mass) and simply strip off fat, leaving vital nutrients for repair and recovery. Users of the data have literally avoided years of wasted training and suboptimal diets in the pursuit of physical perfection.
For pre-competition bodybuilders this information is vital. For those who are not willing to sacrifice hard-earned muscle mass, again it's simply invaluable. Even for those looking to get into their wedding dress, or look good on holiday with only limited time to prepare, it's a breakthrough in exercise science.
It's important to know where the body burns fat and where it burns carbohydrates. When carbohydrate is not present, the body is forced to use protein and fat to fuel exercise - which leads to weight loss but muscle loss, too. Data personally collected by the authors shows 65% of maximum heart rate is highly catabolic for many people contrary to what we are told by the media. The fat burning zone is not a myth, but it is individual, and it's simply a case of finding your own zone and designing your cardiovascular work around this. The data will also give an accurate figure of calories expelled in the session allowing the trainer to again formulate EE and modify bodyweight as a result. This figure again is inaccurately calculated by many pieces of gym equipment. Find the real number and work in your fat burning zone, not the muscle burning zone.
What can you do with RMR? Resting metabolic rate allows the trainer to establish how many calories they can cut and bulk on. Data again personally collected has shown two male subjects of similar weight, age and body composition to have a 700 calorie difference in their RMR. This figure is huge and can be the difference between someone adding muscle on a 3000 calorie diet and one losing weight on what was designed to be a bulking diet. Know your RMR, know where to start when creating a calorie deficit (to cut), or surplus (to bulk). When people shout “I'm not gaining, I'm eating loads” we now have one more source of information as to why this is the case.
Below are the RMR test results from two men of the same age using gas analysis:
Subject 1
Height: 180 cm
Weight: 103kg
Body fat: 15%
RMR: 1800 calories
Subject 2
Height: 180 cm
Weight: 84kg
Body fat: 17%
RMR 2500 calories
In these real world examples, the heavier, more muscular man requires fewer calories than the lighter, but proportionally fatter man. The usual assumption is that the facts would be the other way round.
This emphasises how person-specific metabolic rate is, and how simple measurements applied to an online 'metabolic rate calculator' are highly inaccurate when trying to establish RMR. Gas analysis is a requirement if gains are your goal. Without it, you're purely flying by guesswork. (700 calories equates to 1lb/0.4kg alteration in weight every 5 days).
(Fausto @ Mar. 27 2007,13:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sure thing Faz, but for some of those things you need to be "plugged in" to know, unless one of these "nerds" could give us a calculation.
Some of them sound really useful, and some we can actually find if we look hard enough, anyway..."pickles" for now...just shut up and lift...and aim for better eating, lifting, goal setting and mindset.
they are saying that by taking there test they can calculate all these..........
What can you determine from the test information?
1 How many calories your body needs to maintain weight
2 Which macronutrient (fat or carbohydrates) it prefers at rest
3 Which foods you should eat at which times
4 Your ideal heartbeat range for burning fat
5 Where you begin to burn muscle and go catabolic in a fasted state
6 How many calories you are actually burning at any given heart rate intensity
7 Your body's own macronutrient split of carbohydrate and fat when exercising
8 Predict your daily EE
9 Create and sustain anabolic (and avoid lengthy catabolic) environments
10 Avoid fasting mode, allow the body to burn fat again, and avoid thyroid down-regulation
How does this impact the bodybuilder and fitness enthusiast?
The implications of this data are massive. It's a powerful weapon for the trainer to employ to tackle their goals whether it be muscle gain, fat loss, or both. If you know where your body burns fat during cardio you can ultimately make any cardio work you do non-catabolic (preserve muscle mass) and simply strip off fat, leaving vital nutrients for repair and recovery. Users of the data have literally avoided years of wasted training and suboptimal diets in the pursuit of physical perfection.
For pre-competition bodybuilders this information is vital. For those who are not willing to sacrifice hard-earned muscle mass, again it's simply invaluable. Even for those looking to get into their wedding dress, or look good on holiday with only limited time to prepare, it's a breakthrough in exercise science.
It's important to know where the body burns fat and where it burns carbohydrates. When carbohydrate is not present, the body is forced to use protein and fat to fuel exercise - which leads to weight loss but muscle loss, too. Data personally collected by the authors shows 65% of maximum heart rate is highly catabolic for many people contrary to what we are told by the media. The fat burning zone is not a myth, but it is individual, and it's simply a case of finding your own zone and designing your cardiovascular work around this. The data will also give an accurate figure of calories expelled in the session allowing the trainer to again formulate EE and modify bodyweight as a result. This figure again is inaccurately calculated by many pieces of gym equipment. Find the real number and work in your fat burning zone, not the muscle burning zone.
What can you do with RMR? Resting metabolic rate allows the trainer to establish how many calories they can cut and bulk on. Data again personally collected has shown two male subjects of similar weight, age and body composition to have a 700 calorie difference in their RMR. This figure is huge and can be the difference between someone adding muscle on a 3000 calorie diet and one losing weight on what was designed to be a bulking diet. Know your RMR, know where to start when creating a calorie deficit (to cut), or surplus (to bulk). When people shout “I'm not gaining, I'm eating loads” we now have one more source of information as to why this is the case.
Below are the RMR test results from two men of the same age using gas analysis:
Subject 1
Height: 180 cm
Weight: 103kg
Body fat: 15%
RMR: 1800 calories
Subject 2
Height: 180 cm
Weight: 84kg
Body fat: 17%
RMR 2500 calories
In these real world examples, the heavier, more muscular man requires fewer calories than the lighter, but proportionally fatter man. The usual assumption is that the facts would be the other way round.
This emphasises how person-specific metabolic rate is, and how simple measurements applied to an online 'metabolic rate calculator' are highly inaccurate when trying to establish RMR. Gas analysis is a requirement if gains are your goal. Without it, you're purely flying by guesswork. (700 calories equates to 1lb/0.4kg alteration in weight every 5 days).
I tend to side with Mor - when you said we're flying by guesswork my eyebrow shot up. Contest level BB'ers know what works for them eventually not by guesswork, but by keeping logs and trial and error, just as we know what rep ranges usually give us the best gains.
I'm not saying all the science is useless though. For a guy wanting to win $100,000.00 in contests, a little cash outlay is well recommended, since the competition is kicking out all the stops too. But for you and I? I'll use my money for steaks and whey, and for cutting, mow the lawn and build a deck.
That's good enough for a beach butt.
Now we can get back to arguing about HIIT and steady state cardio...
I'm not saying all the science is useless though. For a guy wanting to win $100,000.00 in contests, a little cash outlay is well recommended, since the competition is kicking out all the stops too. But for you and I? I'll use my money for steaks and whey, and for cutting, mow the lawn and build a deck.
That's good enough for a beach butt.
Now we can get back to arguing about HIIT and steady state cardio...
Fausto
HST Expert
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">they are saying that by taking there test they can calculate all these..........
What can you determine from the test information?</div>
I'd say lots, but what good is it for me? I'm just another guy and am not about to spend money on some info like that unless I am dead serious about it all.
Obviously HST is serious enough for me but I do to keep healthy and look good.
What can you determine from the test information?</div>
I'd say lots, but what good is it for me? I'm just another guy and am not about to spend money on some info like that unless I am dead serious about it all.
Obviously HST is serious enough for me but I do to keep healthy and look good.
Morgoth the Dark Enemy
New Member
Why would a very serious competitor benefit from that?It`s an honest question.