Chinup question

_tim

_tim

Well-Known Member
Hey All -

In our gym, we have this Icarian machine that has a bunch of different kinds of possible pullups/chinups. One bar looks like a lat pulldown bar, with wide handles. Two others are set such that the grip would be hammer-like, one with a wide grip posture and the other narrow, and then the vanilla straight bar.

Which of these (or what combination of these) would you think would force the best compound movement to apply a load?

Secondly, for the vanilla straight bar, are forward-grip or reverse-grip postures better for overall gains?

I know this is a narrow topic, but it's one that I've really been wondering about lately.
 
IMO, the best is close-grip chins. Most of the time, I will alternate that with either lat pulldowns or wide-grip chins to get a better loaded stretch on my back.
 
I would think that hammer curl type chins would be best for LOAD, but I feel the best stretch and prefer close grip chins... which would probably be a close second for load capability.
 
Close-grip chins.... As in thumbs touching, less than shoulder-width, or shoulder width?

I tend to agree on the load issue - close grip hammer pulls seem to allow for the best possible load. The wide grip hammer pulls tend to hit my rhomboids and upper traps kinda funny. The wide-grip (lat bar-like) pullups don't do it for me at all.
 
Thanks Gator -

Though I thought "chinups" are overhand grips, "pullups" are underhand grips. So when everyone says "chins" should I assume that I'm wrong, and that UNDERHAND grips are the way to go?

I'll forgive you for the past 2 championship games if you give me a good answer on this; I'm a '97 graduate of OSU and will forever bleed scarlet and grey. Congrats to you on two great wins - I'll concede that much.
 
Pull-ups historically are recognized by using a pronated grip, which is fancy for palms facing away from you. Chins are recognized by a supinated grip, which is the opposite, or your palms facing you. I think they are somewhat used interchangeably but that's how I've always known them as. And yeah those games were dang good, not gonna lie that opening TD from Ginn Jr. was pretty scary.
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Thanks for the explanation, Gator.

Yeah, the opening kickoff must have been kinda scary for you, but I don't think the Bucks were ready for the Gators, with or without Ginn. They made no adjustments during the game at all, which blew my mind. Oh well - it's done and over with.
 
Probably a combination of neutral between close-grip and wide-grip, and pronated and supinated. So I would think a shoulder-width, hammer curl (semi-supinated) grip would be most efficient.
 
I think what Sci is referring to is the same as parallel-grip (ie. palms facing each other) chins. A bit wider than shoulder width seems about right to me.

I am slightly stronger doing supine-grip chins than parallel-grip chins, although I have to reduce the range of motion for the former or I get forearm splints (at least, it's a really nasty pain that messes up pretty much all my other pulling and pressing lifts). Parallel-grip chins seem like a much more natural movement to me. I never get forearm pains from doing them.
 
Am I the only guy who noticed that Tim asked a vague question, regarding "overall growth" - so any discussion regarding chins or pullups (as was properly explained by Gator) is referring to lats on both, but only Bi's on the chins, since pullups barely use the bi's. But with chins, the lats work less.
Apples and oranges, I'd say.
Gator wins again, with his last post, detailing a combination of both as best for "overall" growth. I can't speak for any of the neutral grip or parallel work since I don't have a rig for that. Yet.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Jun. 05 2007,01:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But with chins, the lats work less.</div>
Quad, if your lats work less with chins then you are made of different stuff than me.  
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Maybe if you use the same load as for pull-ups that would be true (because of the mechanically stronger position of the biceps when chinning) but, as you can use more load for chins, you can hit your lats harder with chins once the loads are high enough.
 
I actually tried it all out today. Here's what I found -

Chins hit my biceps wonderfully, what felt like my posterior deltoids, and parts of my upper lats;
Pullups seemed to hit the outside edges of my lats nicely;
Neutral/close grip (pulls?) hit my rhomboids and mid-traps and kinda nicked the inside edges of my lats;
Netural/wider grip (again - pulls?), just past shoulder width, hit just about every part of my lats and posterior deltoids, but I felt like I wouldn't realize very big gains because the angle at which my biceps flexed felt rather restrictive from a load perspective.

After all that, I feel like Gator is dead on - a combination will likely produce the best gains, but a combination of WHAT now becomes the question.
 
<div>
(_tim @ Jun. 04 2007,14:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks for the explanation, Gator.

Yeah, the opening kickoff must have been kinda scary for you, but I don't think the Bucks were ready for the Gators, with or without Ginn. They made no adjustments during the game at all, which blew my mind. Oh well - it's done and over with.</div>
I have much more trouble with the wide grip pull-ups. I can do neutral grip or close grip chins and pull-ups, but the wide grip jobbies take me to failure very quickly.

[&quot;Oh well - it's done and over with.&quot; -- I dunno, I'm an Ohio State grad, and I still wake up in a cold sweat, screaming: &quot;Burn in Hell, Florida...!&quot;
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]
 
<div>
(TunnelRat @ Jun. 05 2007,12:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have much more trouble with the wide grip pull-ups. I can do neutral grip or close grip chins and pull-ups, but the wide grip jobbies take me to failure very quickly.

[&quot;Oh well - it's done and over with.&quot; -- I dunno, I'm an Ohio State grad, and I still wake up in a cold sweat, screaming: &quot;Burn in Hell, Florida...!&quot;
rock.gif
]</div>
Do you fail because your biceps and forearms fail, or because your lats fail? Genuine curiosity of mine - my arms ALWAYS die before my lats do. It's a big problem that I've never been able to overcome.

On the slaughter that was in Glendale...

My brother, I puke in the back of my throat a little every time I think about that game, and probably will until I see that Tress is again capable of making ADJUSTMENTS when things aren't workin'. On a positive note, I hear that the defense is mean as all get out this year - that should be fun, right?
 
<div>
(Lol @ Jun. 04 2007,22:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(quadancer @ Jun. 05 2007,01:27)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But with chins, the lats work less.</div>
Quad, if your lats work less with chins then you are made of different stuff than me.  
tounge.gif
 
biggrin.gif


Maybe if you use the same load as for pull-ups that would be true (because of the mechanically stronger position of the biceps when chinning) but, as you can use more load for chins, you can hit your lats harder with chins once the loads are high enough.</div>
I've been doing pullups for years, and recently got into chins just for arms. My loads are now almost the same as the chins come up, so yes. But I feel my lats mostly in pullups, I really feel the biceps in chins. That's not to say that the lats don't work in chins: I just do them for an alternate, and to hit the bi's. Lately.

Sorry for the absolute statement I made: I should have said &quot;the lats work less, comparatively &quot; but in your case (and others?) evidently not, since you're using more weight. I'm not yet.
 
_tim:
&quot;In our gym, we have this Icarian machine that has a bunch of different kinds of possible pullups/chinups. One bar looks like a lat pulldown bar, with wide handles. Two others are set such that the grip would be hammer-like, one with a wide grip posture and the other narrow, and then the vanilla straight bar.
Which of these (or what combination of these) would you think would force the best compound movement to apply a load?&quot;

_tim:
&quot;Netural/wider grip (again - pulls?), just past shoulder width, hit just about every part of my lats and posterior deltoids, but I felt like I wouldn't realize very big gains because the angle at which my biceps flexed felt rather restrictive from a load perspective.&quot;

Best for lat development.

_tim:
&quot;Chins hit my biceps wonderfully, what felt like my posterior deltoids, and parts of my upper lats;&quot;

Best for biceps development.

_tim:
&quot;Secondly, for the vanilla straight bar, are forward-grip or reverse-grip postures better for overall gains?&quot;

Forward grip for lats.
Reverse grip for biceps.
 
Forward grip for lats.
Reverse grip for biceps

Both grips work both muscle groups, the consensus around here is that close-grip chins allow heavier loading and so hit both the lats and bi's hard. You could always alternate. I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before. Personally I like close grip suponated.
 
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