Choosing a bicep exercises for hst

L

Louno

New Member
I know that inclined bicep curls are one of the best exercises for your biceps, but i can only lift 30lbs dumbells on each hand ( my right arm could lift 35 but not my left one ).

Because of this, throughout my cycle i am limited in the increases i can make, lets say id start with 10lbs (which is very light ) , i could only progress 4 time, ( 15 , 20 , 25 , 30 )... so i was wondering, should i switch to another bicep exercise that would allow more increases ?

Standing cable bicep curls with a straight bar ( same as barbell curls but with a straight bar on a cable machine ) i can go up to 70-80lbs on my 5s with that exercise.

thanks
 
You will probably get this reply from several HST'ers: Do a compound movement such as barbell curls with free weight or cable. When you get to your last week of 10's, you can switch to doing incline curls and drop the barbell curls. Up to you. One thing that has helped bump up my weight when doing incline curls is 1) I do supinated grip, then switch to hammer grip when I can no longer increase load with supinated, 2) I do not worry about full ROM, i curl the weight up to the half way point where contraction is pretty much maximal and that is it.

Good luck.
 
Man that is a helpfull answer, I as many of us have been struggling with this issue. Let me ask a dumb question --- what is a suplmated grip again. Grips always confuse me.

Congrates on the BB comp. Did those pics come through?

Bob
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bob Evans @ May 09 2005,6:31)]Man that is a helpfull answer,  I as many of us have been struggling with this issue.  Let me ask a dumb question --- what is a suplmated grip again.  Grips always confuse me.
Congrates on the BB comp.  Did those pics come through?
Bob
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Hi Bob. Supinated is the traditional grip with palms away from body. Puts a lot of strain on the biceps, but at heavy weights makes me nervous that I may pop a tendon if you know what I mean. I can usually go up another 10-15 lbs. after I switch to hammer grip.

As for the pics, our digital camera did not do a very good job without flash. The promoters forbid flash photography b/c they had a guy there taking video and pics of the show and said it would interfere with his work. So, in all the pics you can kinda see me, and not meaning to offend, you can't see the black competitiors at all. So, can't really even see what I looked like, let alone compare me to other guys. I am gonna try to update my pic and put on here some time soon. I posted one a few years ago and need to update it.
 
I do hammer curls seated with bench at my back, also do cross chest high to opposite shoulder hammer curls.
The cross chest works a lot more than biceps. It's a great exercise up and down.
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I work on triceps a lot harder than biceps, because they're a big part of my arms
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According to Vicious, the main reason for using isolation exercises such as incline dumbell curls is the stretch that they provide. He recommends using stictly compound movements during the 15s and 10s, then introducing isolation exercises in the 5s, perhaps the 10s if you'd like. For the biceps, compound movements you would want to consider would be chins, rows, deadlifts, etc. All of this, and much more, can be found in Vicious' "Customizing HST" thread. (I think it's fair to call it his thread, since he wrote >95% of it.)

So just because you don't have much room to increment with your curls doesn't mean you can't use them. You could save them until the 5s, then maybe do 20--20--25--25--30--30 (i.e. repeat each weight once). Also, negatives are an option, although I've found that the most feasible way to do negatives for curls is to use a machine and do two hands up, one hand down.

P.S. BIZ, I'm not too familiar with digital photography and image editing, but perhaps someone on this board would be able take the pics and somehow enhance them? C'mon, you know you wanna post 'em...
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i finally found my answer!! can't wait till next cycle to do that
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i've been doing stretch exercises the whole cycle
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and can't do supinated curls for some injury reason. thank God for compound exercises
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Louno

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]i am limited in the increases i can make, lets say id start with 10lbs (which is very light ) , i could only progress 4 time, ( 15 , 20 , 25 , 30 )...
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YOu are limited because you don't have "biscuits" or because you have not thought of them?
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Who said that you have to increase 5 pounds at a time, your progression should have been 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 ,20 that is one minicycle, but of course you will need 1 and 2 pounder weights for that, now if you don't have those then I agree you are a little stuck, but not that much either, then all you do is repeat the weights for one extra workout.

Ok. That is my solution, Vicious's and Biz's solutions are perfectly fine
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, but this just shows how much one can tweak according to one's liking and ability and still mek progress, that is the spirit of it all
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Ciao
 
Thanks yall.

my gym only has 5lbs increases for dumbbells.

I already do chins and rows in my workout, but i wanted to grow my arms, they arent growing as fast as the rest of my body, so i do all the compound movements but add 1 bicep isolation exercise, 1 tricep isolation exercise and 1 forearm/wrist isolation exercise, ( wrist curls/revers wrist curls ).
I did this this past cycle but like i said i couldnt get much increases from the db bicep curls, arms are bigger but im not satisfied so i was wondering if switching to an exercise that allows greater number of increases would be better...

anyhow, from what i understand, one of the best thing i could do is keep my compounds, do bicep curls with the cable machine where i can go up to 70-80lbs with 5lbs increases , and during the 5s ADD ? or REPLACE ? that cable bicep curls with seated incline dumbbell bicep curls ?

wouldnt this be weird ? because if i switch to incline db curls ( max 2x 30lbs) , ill lift less weight than if i continu with the cable curls ( 70-80lbs ) ...
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Louno @ May 10 2005,12:29)]during the 5s ADD ? or REPLACE ? that cable bicep curls with seated incline dumbbell bicep curls ?
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ADD. For the loaded stretch.
 
Actually, I have found great gains doing the inclined curl with small weight increments (2 pounds). I have increased much in strength, but also in size. I went out and bought some of those 1 pound wrist weights. You can either wrap them around your wrist or the dumbells, depending. It looks stupid, but so what, I'm not in the gym to look cool anyway (my giant cowlick and generally unwashed apperance also assist with that)


EDIT: I add the isolations during the 10s, just to weigh in on that issue
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (precious_roy @ May 10 2005,3:04)]generally unwashed apperance
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Ok, a little too much information, that's a sharing violation for sure
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Not to disagree with the Incline, as I do use them, the best thing I found is Rows, Pull Ups, more Rows and more Pull Ups. Sorry IMHO they can't be beat.
 
Ooh, another one of Viscious' ideas (I guess I'm the official Viscious quoter in this thread) that sounds really good, although I have yet to try it, is partial reps for chins. It just so happens, lucky us, that with pulling exercises such as chins, the strong part of the movement coincides with the point where stretch is the greatest. With chins and other upper body pulling movements, this is the very beginning of the movement. So the idea is to load up a LOT of weight using a weight belt, then crank out some partial reps. You'll probably want to go slow, otherwise each rep could end up lasting a fraction of a second. This method will allow you to place your biceps under a lot of tension while being stretched at the same time.

Note that this technique should only be used during 5s, post-5s, or negatives.
 
Yeah . . . there's quite a few ways to get the biceps to respond. You could just do a bloody static hold with some extreme weight near lockout. That's how I got my biceps to respond 4-5 years ago; I just hung from a chinup bar for almost 2 minutes. Generally, negatives with pulling movements will give you enough tension to produce significant changes in biceps. So can high-tension partials. Of course, you can do incline curls negative-style plus loaded stretch. That's fun. :D

As for Luono's original problem, I would start at a unusually low weight during 10s. More or less, I concentrate on technique and accentuating the stretch, taking the negative portion very slow through the first 2 sessions. Also, I tend to calibrate my maxes toward normal ROM variations. What this means is that I would use the 10RM and 5RM of normal bench, normal angle DB curls. To accomplish this, I would change up the elbow angle of the lifting (toward waistline), and lean forward a little for leverage. It looks like cheating because it is. Then you lower with the proper stretched technique.

The stretch-point exercises are just there to give ghastly eccentric contractions. If you feel like it isn't doing right for you, then you can try something else. For example, you can pulse stretch your chin/rowing movements. During 5s, at the end of your work sets, just do 5-10 pulse stretches at near-lockout. That works pretty well too.

cheers,
Jules
 
You could just do a bloody static hold with some extreme weight near lockout

WHEN YOU MEAN NEAR LOCKOUT IS IT FOR BARBELL CURLS?AND THE HOLD at the near bottom position?or near the top?can you please elaborate on this static?how many seconds hold?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]WHEN YOU MEAN NEAR LOCKOUT IS IT FOR BARBELL CURLS?AND THE HOLD at the near bottom position?or near the top?can you please elaborate on this static?how many seconds hold?
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A static hold, near lockout/stretch, with 20-30% heavier weight than you're using, with a pulling or rowing movement. If it's held long enough, it'll involve the reflex and become a loaded stretch. Or you could switch to pulse stretches with the pulling/rowing movement, which will hit your biceps as well as your back.

Pulling and rowing movements are limited by the weak link being at full contraction, rather than at the full stretch (most pressing movements don't have this problem.) That basically means that, to REALLY make pulling/rowing movements dance, you want to reach higher work loads than 5RM. Most people don't do that, instead opting to increase the volume of these movements. That works too, but not as effectively as using a method to boost effective tension. Negatives, partials, loaded stretches, and pulse stretches are all techniques that enable the muscle to work beyond 5RM. If you rely on PRIMARILY these movements to develop the biceps, then at least I strongly recommend switching to partials or negatives at some point in order to work the biceps past the 5RM. Static holds (as with LS and PS) is merely an option of doing that earlier in the cycle. But ultimately, you want to get there, sooner or later, if pulling movements are your primary option for developing biceps.

cheers,
Jules
 
Hmm this is getting a bit complicated... help ! hehe
Ill do whatever i have to , i just need to know what to do and how to do it...

My 5rm for barbell bicep curls is 70lbs.
My 5rm for inclined dumbell seated curls is 30lbs.
I do 1 set in 15s,
2 sets in 10s,
3 sets in 5s ,
( and repeat my 5rm max for another 2 weeks before sd )

Dumbbells at my gym start at 10lbs and go up by 5lbs increases.
Barbells at my gym start at 20lbs and go up by 10lbs.
Cable machine with barbell grip or ez curl grip ( not sure we have ezcurlbar tho ) can do increases of 5lbs.

Knowing this, what do i have to do to make my routine as good as it can be next cycle.


now about loaded strech... what do i do ? i take 40lbs dumb bells and sit on the inclined bench with my arms streched out and wait 2 mins, then rest 1-2 min, then do it again ? ... or do i take a barbell ( say 80lbs ) let it hang for 2 mins... or i let myself hang from a chinup bar... what kinda grip on the chinup bar ? do i add these loaded strech to my workout during the 5s ? at the end of the 5s ? after the 5s ? or do i replace my other bicep exercises with this one ? how many sets ? how much time is 1 set ? i have to do absolutely nothing but let the weight hang ? ...

thanks for the help guys
 
The latest exercise I've tried for bis is a reverse cable incline curl (I made up the name to approximate movement). Adjust the cable arms so that they are vertical, pull the cables down and get into a hunched kneeling position on the floor. My arms are pulled back behind me as far as they'll go, and I'm holding myself forward with core muscles. Then just contract the bis (pull cables), but DO NOT move your shoulders/chest and pull the arm forward...contract only.

It's obv. a cable variant of inc. curls. Tried it because after the last workout I was feeling a bit of a splint pain in outer left forearm, and didn't feel it this time. Was able to do more weight than with db's as well.
 
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