Complete Linear Progression

Q

quadancer

New Member
After searching and studying this sticky:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....;t=4616
and searching the forum, I've failed to find any idea like what I'm proposing.

My biceps have refused to grow in proportion to my tri's, so I've begun an experiment. Willing to take some criticism on it:

I began with an easy weight for cambered bar curls (75lbs.) and have been doing 15's while adding 5 lbs. per workout, 2 sets each workout. My plan is to add weight until I feel I'm hitting my limit for doing a 15 without failure (a slower end rep being the marker).
Next I will add weight again, and do however many reps I can without failure. I may repeat this weight for one more workout if I feel the need, before adding again.
Continuing in this manner, the reps will drop as I go and the weight increase, only rather than in a regimented manner (15's, 10's and 5's) I am following the natural strength/hypertrophy curve of the muscle itself, all the way down to doing 4-5 reps and negatives.
It's only because the bi's aren't responding that I'm trying this variation. Just an idea, still using submax weight, by stopping short of failures. And it's just for one muscle group, not the whole body. It wouldn't work for the whole body because all the exersizes would get out of sync. You'd wind up doing say, 10 reps on one and be down to 6 on another, and the cycle wouldn't end in sync for all of them.
Or maybe I just think too much, I dunno...
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(quadancer @ Oct. 28 2006,11:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">After searching and studying this sticky:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....;t=4616
and searching the forum, I've failed to find any idea like what I'm proposing.

My biceps have refused to grow in proportion to my tri's, so I've begun an experiment. Willing to take some criticism on it:

    I began with an easy weight for cambered bar curls (75lbs.) and have been doing 15's while adding 5 lbs. per workout, 2 sets each workout. My plan is to add weight until I feel I'm hitting my limit for doing a 15 without failure (a slower end rep being the marker).
    Next I will add weight again, and do however many reps I can without failure. I may repeat this weight for one more workout if I feel the need, before adding again.
   [/B]Continuing in this manner, the reps will drop as I go and the weight increase, only rather than in a regimented manner (15's, 10's and 5's) I am following the natural strength/hypertrophy curve of the muscle itself, all the way down to doing 4-5 reps and negatives.
    It's only because the bi's aren't responding that I'm trying this variation. Just an idea, still using submax weight, by stopping short of failures. And it's just for one muscle group, not the whole body. It wouldn't work for the whole body because all the exersizes would get out of sync. You'd wind up doing say, 10 reps on one and be down to 6 on another, and the cycle wouldn't end in sync for all of them.
    Or maybe I just think too much, I dunno...
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I TEND to follow the &quot;natural curve&quot; myself with all my exercises,i drop my reps by 2 each week(roughly)

so i go 16,14,12,10,,,,,,,down to 4's then on occasion i test out my maxs.

i think the program can be made more versatile if the weight/rep scheme isnt rigid.my bi's arent as good as my tri's,just gotta keep liftin
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good luck with your experiment.
 
My only concern would be that you are working at or close to your rep max on all future sets once you hit your 15 rep max. However, as you say, it is only one muscle group, and your smallest one at that so what the heck...Experimentation is good.
 
2 suggestions:

1) Have you tried throwing some hammer curls into your mix too?

2) Have you tried Max-Stim just for your bis? They work really well for bb curls if you have a rack as you can easily put the bar down after each rep. I haven't felt anything quite like a MS arm session. You will probably be able to use more load for more reps than you have been able to use before = more potential growth!
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Some very good ideas there. No, I haven't tried maxstim for the bi's yet just because I thought of this and was interested in seeing how it would work. And I am doing hammers. But I value the opinions of you guys just as much. Sometimes we overlook things when we have these 'profound revelations', and a little objective opinion can help.
Heck, I was scared to even put a 'check my routine' blurb in here; I don't often read anyone elses either.
What Icars is doing I've done close to with a 15, 12, 10, 8, 6 routine, and that was okay, but the bi's didn't grow. I'm thinking that this plan I'm trying is even closer to the curve. And O&amp;G, it's still submax. I'm always coming close to failure here and there anyway, this would be just continuously close.
I believe they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results!
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(Old and Grey @ Oct. 28 2006,15:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My only concern would be that you are working at or close to your rep max on all future sets once you hit your 15 rep max. However, as you say, it is only one muscle group, and your smallest one at that so what the heck...Experimentation is good.</div>
this is a concern and thats why i tend to use this type of cycle occasionally.

that said you can zig-zag to avoid working close to your max's.
 
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(quadancer @ Oct. 28 2006,23:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Some very good ideas there. No, I haven't tried maxstim for the bi's yet just because I thought of this and was interested in seeing how it would work. And I am doing hammers. But I value the opinions of you guys just as much. Sometimes we overlook things when we have these 'profound revelations', and a little objective opinion can help.
Heck, I was scared to even put a 'check my routine' blurb in here; I don't often read anyone elses either.
What Icars is doing I've done close to with a 15, 12, 10, 8, 6 routine, and that was okay, but the bi's didn't grow. I'm thinking that this plan I'm trying is even closer to the curve. And O&amp;G, it's still submax. I'm always coming close to failure here and there anyway, this would be just continuously close.
I believe they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results!  
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im gonna go with lol on this one and say add in some hammers.ive been doing wide grip z-bar to hit the belly and peak of the bicep then i do hammers to hit the outer and peak of the bis,after a cycle of this i go onto wide grip chins(shoulder width)and close grip z-bar.i find these hit hard and cover both heads of the bicep very well.


another thing i think max stim would be a great addition to a cycle even if you only used it for the odd body part
 
IMO, for an experienced lifter, this is a good plan. Go for it!
 
Bottom line if you are progressing in weight each workout and doing more work...you shoud grow!

I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Max Stim is a good idea...to lift heavier...I just find that MAX Stim is not practical at all to anyone who has a set amount of time to lift.

Too time consuming.
 
Quaddancer, that sounds kind of like my 1st cycle. You know the one I misunderstood, did all wrong, and gained 30lbs on?

yeah, that one.

I did my 15's, 10's, 5's, 5's like this
2x15
3x10
5x5
5x5

But calculated the weight wrong. I had the 15's right, didn't understand the importantce of dropping the weight during the initial workouts of the rep change so I added 5lbs next time and started my 10's 5lbs heavier than my 15's ended. Same for 5's, and 5's again.

I only gained an inch in my arms, but after spending 3 years with 15 inchers that would not grow - I love my new 16's. It took 2 whole months to build them. I've not grown any more in the last 2 months, but you know what? I've maintaned and am very happy with it.

My 5x5 I'm starting in a few weeks will be done with constantly progressive weights too, a little different than my first HST cycle, but still progressing in a similar manner.

Best wishes for your experiment's success. Be sure to share your results with us...good or bad.
 
LOL @ Vagrant!
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I've decided that since I'm nearing limits with my 20 rep squat scheme, I'm going to do the same thing with them. (my other non-responders)
I can make the time for maxstim, but my 53 yr. old butt won't hang in there!...I prefer to add exersizes where possible, and I've never tried wide grip chins; that sounds like an interesting possibility to add in. One problem I had years ago when I tried doing like 5 exersizes for bi's was that they shrunk instead of grew, so I'm leary of doing too much.
To clarify:
My only constant here is the number of sets, (2) and the amount of weight increase (5lbs. bi's, 10lbs. quads), so I'll be following the strength curve close to but not quite into failure. I won't hit the 15 rep max, because I'm staying under failure and dropping the reps where I need to, since I'm still adding weight. But now I'm thinking of adding a second exersize, like the chins, as well. Since I'm staying so close to failure, I think more than two exersizes would maybe be too much on a small muscle. Possibly even one is enough, due to frequency.
 
Not HST....but another opinion.

Have you considered maybe using 65%of your 1 rep max for arms...and increasing the volume to pretty high once or twice a week.

I think we sometimes can under estimate volume...to a degree...as long as its within reason.

just a thought!
 
Agree with Joe on max-stim not practical for those with a set time to finsih their workout.

It was a good idea for me during the times I could spend as much time in the gym as I want. Now that I NEED to be in and out of the gym like lightning (or not go there at all, which is unacceptable), max-stim is out of the options.
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As for the biceps variation proposed by quad... yeah, sure, go for it.

Just remember that the 15/10/5 rep scheme isn't supposed to be rigid at all. It's not magic. It's just one way to implement HST that is as less confusing for newbies as possible (you know, &quot;more weight = less reps possible&quot; tag, clear as day). You don't have to follow 15/10/5. You can do 14/13/12/7/5/3 if you wanted to, and that would be fine if at the end of it all you ended up lifting more weight than you started, and you controlled your volume well. Diet too, but you get the point already.

Regards,
-JV
 
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(jvroig @ Oct. 30 2006,07:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Agree with Joe on max-stim not practical for those with a set time to finsih their workout.</div>
I don't see this as a problem for one set of bb curls. You can be done in around 5 minutes (or less if not doing greater than RM loads). That's probably not a whole lot different to 3 sets of heavy fives. It'd be worth a try.
 
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(Lol @ Oct. 30 2006,07:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(jvroig @ Oct. 30 2006,07:30)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Agree with Joe on max-stim not practical for those with a set time to finsih their workout.</div>
I don't see this as a problem for one set of bb curls. You can be done in around 5 minutes (or less if not doing greater than RM loads). That's probably not a whole lot different to 3 sets of heavy fives. It'd be worth a try.</div>
LOL...correct you are sir, but it reminds me of an old problem that disappeared when I switched to HST. I had several long bouts of medial epicondilitis (golfer's elbow) and deemed not to do maxes for biceps again; that sort of includes max-stim for me. I'd hate to wake up that sleeping dragon again.

The cool thing is that I haven't been bothered by it since my first HST cycle! HST ROCKS!

However, I'm not totally sure that max-stim would do that to me. But once awakened, that dragon takes a LONG time to go away.
 
you should do what you said, give it a go and see what results you get
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after that if you dont get results try something different.
you could try 10 sets of 3 reps start with your 10rep max and increase every week
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Quadancer...I know what you mean.

HST is a lot better on the joints.

That is how I know when I am getting Close to overdoing it. The joints start aching.

As long as you doing more load or more work...or some would argue more work in less time you should see some progress.

Obviously HST teaches us load is most important...but sometimes due to injuries I have to go with Volume....to get around injuries.

So if you are starting to ach from getting close to your max that is were I would go with more volume.

I guess I should put that disclaimer out there before I advocated why I use higher volume...and that reason is do to some previous injuries I feel only so comfortable lifting so much weight, for fear of tearing something...thats why volume is my friend sometimes
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(Joe.Muscle @ Oct. 30 2006,13:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quadancer...I know what you mean.

HST is a lot better on the joints.

That is how I know when I am getting Close to overdoing it. The joints start aching.

As long as you doing more load or more work...or some would argue more work in less time you should see some progress.

Obviously HST teaches us load is most important...but sometimes due to injuries I have to go with Volume....to get around injuries.

So if you are starting to ach from getting close to your max that is were I would go with more volume.

I guess I should put that disclaimer out there before I advocated why I use higher volume...and that reason is do to some previous injuries I feel only so comfortable lifting so much weight, for fear of tearing something...thats why volume is my friend sometimes
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im feeling my joints now,particulaly the shoulders,from heavy benching and shoulder press,the reason is ive been maxing alot this cycle and adding more volume,crazy i know.

im gonna set out my next cycle soon,as im close to finishing

@quad

the tennis elbow thingy is a pain in the ass,ive had it  only once about 4 years ago,i worked through it,but it took a year to go,im a little more careful now,and i think hst  helps me to avoid such injuries also.

good luck with what ever you decide.
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When I started HST for the first time...by body responded amazingly...and I had no idea had bad my CNS was drained until then.

That why the less is more approach works so well.
 
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