dangers of ephadrine

Discussion in 'Anything and Everything about dietary supplements' started by Ashil, Jun 19, 2003.

  1. Ashil

    Ashil New Member

    i've decided to end my cutting cycle by using a popular brand thermogenic supplement that has ephadrine in it. I friend brought some back for me from the US because it is illegal here in the UK, which is what worries me.

    I've started on low dosage as recommended, and instead of taking it 3-times daily i half the dosage and take it 6-times as bryan recommends.

    The only negative effect i've noticed is the minimum of 1 hour it takes to fall assleep.

    what are the main effects/signs i should b cautious of when taking such a product.

    PS: I will be on it for no longer than 4 weeks

    thanks
     
  2. If something was wrong you would know by now. I doubt you will feel much more than being jumpy for a little while and possibly being thirsty more often. When I take it I take 60mg with 200mg caffeine but only once. If I take it after 10am I have the same problem sleeping. Really Ephedrine is very safe if you do not go overboard. Also I would not take it more than a month myself as it seems to stop working very well after a month.

    Eric
     
  3. Dood

    Dood New Member

  4. Jake

    Jake New Member

    Hmmmmm... I'm not so sure of that. I know I'm going to sound like an apostate on this, but I don't think ephedrine is safe, even for the general public. Yes, it's true that most people will experience only a little nervousness while taking ephedrine. But there are enough case reports of nasty stuff (strokes, prostate enlargement to name just two) occurring in people who've been taking it for a while (not necssarily months, but more than several doses. I can't believe it's really worth it, especially compared to the alternative (which is admitedly slower, but undounbtedly safer)- reducing cals and increasing activity. Don't get me wrong- I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone for using ephedrine, but personally, I'd never use it myself.
    Jake
     
  5. Most of the cases are bogus. Either they were taking way too much or the report was not true. For instance the Baseball player that died did not even have it in his blood at the time of death. His problem was he was very overweight and wearing several layers of clothing in the heat. The FDA is pushing the reports because it is something they have no control over. It has been used for thousands of years without problems. Even recently in the last 20 years or so it has been very common in bodybuilding. From what I hear the actual known deaths in that timeframe is way below 100 cases. I can not remember the exact number but the number of people who have died from asprin is WAY higher than the number of people who have died from Ephedra. You have to take things in moderation because yes even things that are not all that dangerous you can overdose on and it can kill you. Too much water in a very short amount of time can kill you. Although most of those cases involve Ecstasy which tends to make you thirstier than normal. Under normal conditions you would basically have to force it down you to get too much. Several gallons within less than an hour should do it.

    Edit: I just found the link I was looking for.

    http://www.ephedrafacts.com/

    Eric
     
  6. Jake

    Jake New Member

    Of course, the number of people who have died from taking aspirin is way higher- more people take aspirin than ephedrine. The jury's probably stil out on whether or not ephedrine has a higher *risk* of serious adverse event. The abstract cited below would indicate that the incidence of a serious adverse event asociated with ephedrine (or ephedra) is fairly low- 37/926, or about 4%. This is somewhat misleading, though- what we really need is a study that gets at something called *attributable risk*, or the risk of an outcome like this that can be directly attributed to exposure to ephedrine. That would be tough to do without a controlled trial. What *is* interesting is that 36 of the 37 cases used ephedra within the suggested dosing guidelines- that's pretty compelling, even with such a small sample size.

    BTW, I wasn't talking only about deaths. A much more common adverse outome with ephedrine exposure is non-fatal cardiovascular or cerebrovascular event, such as stroke and hemorrhagic myocardial infarction. No argument that the ball player who collapsed last summer was overweight and dehydrated- it was a classic case of heat stroke.

    On another note, your link was to a site sponsored by the ephedra industry. Just like the FDA, they have a particular axe to grind, and whatever they say should be carefully and objectively evaluated. Not ignored, but carefully considered.

    Finally, a note of disclosure- I am an epidemiologist, so I'm a member of the "establishment," but to some extent I do agree with your comment about the FDA. I think the evidence is weak at this point to recommend banning ephedrine and ephedra-containing preparations. I think the same is true of the ban on PPA, especially in cold preparations. However, I do feel that caution is in order. Like you point out, *no* drug (and ephedrine and its natural and synthetic analogs, and yes, even water, are drugs) is absolutely safe. My personal view on this is that without further evidence either way, I'd rather err on the side of caution and consider ephedrine a poor alternative to adjusting diet and activity during a cutting cycle. For those who want to take ephedrine, I say go in peace, but do it cautiously and with your eyes wide open- this stuff's not completely benign.
    Jake


    Samenuk D. Link MS. Homoud MK. Contreras R. Theohardes TC. Wang PJ. Estes NA 3rd. Adverse cardiovascular events temporally associated with ma huang, an herbal source of ephedrine. Mayo Clinic Proceedings. 77(1):12-6, 2002 Jan.
    OBJECTIVE: To evaluate possible cardiovascular toxic effects associated with use of dietary supplements containing ma huang, an herbal source of ephedrine. METHODS: We reviewed the comprehensive database Adverse Reaction Monitoring System of the Food and Drug Administration, which included clinical records, investigative reports, and autopsy reports related to ma huang use. The main outcome measurements were stroke, myocardial infarction, and sudden death. RESULTS: From 1995 to 1997, 926 cases of possible ma huang toxicity were reported to the Food and Drug Administration. In 37 patients (23 women and 14 men with a mean +/- SD age of 43 +/- 13 years), use of ma huang was temporally related to stroke (in 16), myocardial infarction (in 10), or sudden death (in 11). Autopsies performed in 7 of the 11 patients who experienced sudden death showed a normal heart in 1, coronary atherosclerosis in 3, and cardiomyopathies in 3. In 36 of the 37 patients, use of ma huang was reported to be within the manufacturers' dosing guidelines. CONCLUSIONS: Analysis of the 37 patients indicates the following findings: (1) ma huang use is temporally related to stroke, myocardial infarction, and sudden death; (2) underlying heart or vascular disease is not a prerequisite for ma huang-related adverse events;and (3) the cardiovascular toxic effects associated with ma huang were not limited to massive doses. Although the pathogenesis of the cardiac toxic effects of ma huang remains incompletely defined, available observational and circumstantial evidence indicates that use of the substance may be associated with serious medical complications.
     
  7. Interesting. The number I saw was more like a TOTALof 37 legitimate cases. This was out of millions of people taking it. Although I believe it was only talking about deaths. Its interesting though. The first time I took it was about 4 years ago. It seemed that most of the people taking it at the time were serious lifters looking to cut. I saw absolutely nothing negative mentioned for people taking it responsibly. Yes by then millions of people have taken it and there were very few problems. It was not until it started being used by the masses that these things came out. Possibly more people are taking it that are in terrible condition to begin with? I know I did not even touch the stuff until I was down to somewhere around 18%-20% bodyfat... which sadly is the point where my body makes it almost imposible to lose more without some type of chemical intervention. I do agree though I'm sure some of the cases had been taking it within guidelines. If people could be incompatible with certain foods I'm sure it also happens with ephedrine.

    Eric
     
  8. Jake

    Jake New Member

    Excellent point, and I'd bet that's the case in a lot, if not most of these! With the advent of mass marketing of diet aids in general, and particularly those containing ephedrine, I'm sure there are lots of people taking them who haven't lifted anything heavier than a 5lb bag of sugar or walked more than 100 feet to their car. Needless to say, these folks are an accident waiting to happen- they probably have a host of underlying diseases and bad habits (like smoking and/or drinking way too much coffee), and add to that a substance that is a known vasopressor (raises the BP), well, it's no surprise that there have been some serious complications from ephedrine. It would make for a very intersting study to nail this down- my sense is that there are probably a host of things that predispose ephedrine users to adverse events, but as of now, we have absolutely no idea of what they all are.

    Jake
     

Share This Page