Different HSt routine

J

Joe.Muscle

Active Member
This maybe out of HST normalcy...but what if you felt like your legs were outgrowing your upper body by a long shot and you wanted to just devote one HST cycle to pure upper body size buy eliminating all minor lifts like arms exercises and trap exercises and minimal abs exercises. Say a routine like this.

Bench 10 degree incline 5 sets
Rows 5 sets
Shoulder press 5 sets
abs 2 sets and only 1 set for arms or maybe none at all.

Would this be and effective routine for upperbody. Not a lot of exercises but the volume increases. this would be done 3 times a week?

Thanks and sorry if this is too unusual..hehe :D
 
Not unusual at all. Bringing up lagging parts is normal and one way to do it would be to concentrate volume on those parts. I would at least work legs with a load, not progressive, but just to maintain, maybe twice a week.
 
What about dips? And I'd do deadlifts once or twice a week, because they put a big load on the upper body and would still keep your legs in the game somewhat.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (dkm1987 @ June 07 2005,11:32)]I would at least work legs with a load, not progressive, but just to maintain, maybe twice a week.
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Good point, so you might as well maintain arms too!

-Colby
 
What about instead of such volume, 5 sets x 3 days weekly, you increased the frequency. I'm told frequency is more productive than volume.

Lets say 5 sets x 3 days = 15 sets weekly.

How about 3 sets of each, done Mon - Fri?

Regardless, i see nothing wrong with it. Definately weird. I've allways wondered what would happen if i didn't work my arms for a cycle and just went with the compounds only.
 
Compounds do fine for arms and such. Though again, it's not really volume but load that makes compounds really effective.

I'm kinda skeptical about doing 5 sets for two reasons. First, assuming that you can do at least 2 of those sets to full completion, it suggests that your maxes should be higher. Second, using volume -- especially volume that high -- without looking at other factors is a bit like trying to beat the Red Sox by spending $200 million on payroll. You could spend that much money, with diminishing returns, or just make smarter GM moves.

It's best to look at the incline press, any incline press, as a weaker shoulder press plus upper pec development. It's not a very good tricep exercise. It's not a good pec major exercise. The incline press is great if you pair it with the dip or decline press; you get your delt development and some additional work on the upper pec. But pairing it with the shoulder/military press is only good if you want to develop your front delts out of proportion with the pec major and triceps. If you're not happy with your arms, then this combination just isn't very good.

That being said, if you want to stick with these exercise, I recommend switching to cluster/density training for the upper body.

For 15s, shoot for 30-35 reps with 3-5 reps plus 10-30 second rest periods. For 10s, shoot for 20-25 reps with 3-5 reps plus 10-30 seconds rest periods. For 5s, shoot for 10-15 reps using 1-3 reps with 5-15 second rest periods. Less reps, more strain, less time at the gym.

cheers,
Jules
 
Thanks Jules...what I really need is to develope my pecs bigger they are still lagging somewhat... I have took your advice in the past by doing a regular set followed by a an immediate drop set with a fly and had good results...that being said I will continue to do that...but how would I adjust the program you just critiqued for maximum pec growth without letting my front delts get out of hand.??

What would a routine look like for that?
 
Actually, I 'm having the same problem. My shoulders are fine but my chest is lagging too. I feel that the bench press (flat or incline) is working my shoulders more than the chest... Any suggestions (more volume, flies, burn sets)?
 
Joe, can you do declines?

9to5, try dips or declines instead of flat and incline. Also loaded stretches with flys.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dood @ June 08 2005,9:35)]Joe, can you do declines?
9to5, try dips or declines instead of flat and incline.  Also loaded stretches with flys.
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Dips i can't do..and I never have got a lot out of declines?

Cant do the dips b/c of a shoulder injury.

Loaded stretches...not sure what they are???
 
Yeah, you gotta understand that incline flies are a lousy pec (major) exercise. Which is what makes them so good. ;) When used with a real pec-developer like dip or decline, then you have potentially more balanced pecs with less of the manboob look.

If you want to seriously bring up your pecs in a hurry, then look at doing a DB variation of the incline or flat bench fly.

1) Wait until 10s to add them.

2) Choose normal ROM weights for 10s and 5s

3) But perform them as deep as possible. Make those pecs pull. Cluster as you approach your maxes. In order to avoid cuff irritation as you approach your normal 10/5 maxes, go into a pressing motion to raise the weight and lower it slowly.

4) Do the deep fly before the pressing exercises. 1 or 2 sets

5) During 5s, hold them at the bottom for at least 15-30 seconds. Do it just long enough to feel the pecs start to resist, but not much longer. Ideally, do this before the pressing exercises. If not, then after your first set of pressing exercises.

6) At the end of workout, go 10-15 pulses with a pec-dec
machine. Feel the burn.

7) Go negatives during post-5s.

8) Ideally, increase frequency to 6x-a-week. You could just spend every other day just working on chest.

9) EAT!!!

cheers,
Jules
 
Thanks Jules that was very very helpful.

Thanks for making some many good points. I really appreciate that. I will post some before and after pics in about 3 more months or so...the only problem is I am trying to keep my bf% around 11% year round and for summer get to 7%. I use to back in college really bulk...and gain big muscle an then really cut..but I have founda as I get older plus a desk job its easier for me with my schedule to just maintain lower BF% if I can until summer.

Either way I will post some pics..I am going to head your advice for a whole cycle and then I will post.

Thanks again! :D
 
Thank you for your replies too. Vicious, many thanks for your "pec development quick guide". I am currently using slightly incline bench and dips (leaning forward) for chest. Should I replace the bench with flyes or just add 1 or 2 sets of flyes to my current routine? One thing that troubles me is that if I do flyes BEFORE the other chest exercises, it would probably prevent me from going very heavy...
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (9to5lifter @ June 09 2005,3:08)]One thing that troubles me is that if I do flyes BEFORE the other chest exercises, it would probably prevent me from going very heavy...
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Yeah, that puzzles me as well. I've always done flys and all loaded stretch work after my regular work set, (dips or bench), because I feel it would make it harder to use enough weight on the work set.
Jules?
 
Yes, you're correct -- if you do flies before the bench, the bench will get significantly tougher. BUT, if you apply a high load/stretch overload fairly early, the strain and its requisite signaling will be stronger. Usually I don't recommend this, but a somebody who wants to *really* specialize in pecs may want to do that. Again, it's optional.

It's really about priority. One problem with Joe's routine is that he throws in a lot of work sets for a given exercise, which creates a sort of refractory effect in p38 signaling for other (superior) exercises hitting that bodypart. Thus, he has to slip in the stretch-point and LS somewhere in between his incline press work sets (i.e. superset) before finishing out his work sets.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Should I replace the bench with flyes or just add 1 or 2 sets of flyes to my current routine
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I'd leave in both the incline and dip. The incline press works the delts and pec minor, which may help bring some balance to overall pec development (overdeveloped pec major = manboob look.)

Flies are only worth it if they're done below bench level. Of course, you're also unusually weak in that ROM, and so as you approach your (normal ROM) max, use a pressing motion to raise the weight, then lower it normally to full stretch. I'd probably use an incline bench to do them. And I'd wait until 10s to add flies.

cheers,
Jules
 
"Think of it as pubmed porn!"


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Vicious Im sorry but I think I am confused again?

So to recap my problem is that I do to many work sets??? Correct?

So instead of 5 sets just make it :confused: maybe 3 sets?

Ok and with that established I would want to incorporate 2 sets of flys pre exhaust with 1 set of bench?

would this be the best way to get ultimate pec growth.

Also I started about a year ago using a adjustable bench for chest...I never do flat bench I instead go to the first level on the adjustable bench and go from there...its about 10 degrees at most?

Is this okay...or am I not hitting the pecs good at that angle??

I have always like that angle b/c I felt like I was still hitting the pecs but also a little upper chest with people tend to overlook..but maybe I should just be doing flat?

I guess what I am asking is what is the proper exercise selection...and in what order should I use them and how many sets...?

Sorry for this on going question..but I assure you I greatly greatly appreciate it!

Thanks again! :)
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Also I started about a year ago using a adjustable bench for chest...I never do flat bench I instead go to the first level on the adjustable bench and go from there...its about 10 degrees at most?
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It's tolerable, but the pec major is best hit with a decline angle. Basically, any movement that hits the pec major hits the pec minor (upper pec) too. What makes the incline press good is that because it's such a lousy pec major exercise. Thus it seems to "emphasize" the upper pecs. But, the pec major nevertheless constitutes most of the chest size (or, rather the pec minor is rather small), and so overall chest development is still dependent on a flat-to-decline angle. Or to put it another way, this is like doing lots of chins to develop your lower-to-middle back, when the person should be doing bent-over rows and deadlifts.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Ok and with that established I would want to incorporate 2 sets of flys pre exhaust with 1 set of bench?
Click to expand...

Sure, that'll work. So to review . . .

1) Wait until 10s to add flies. A very high flat or normal incline bench both work fine.

2) For 10 and 5 maxes, use your normal ROM load for the flies. This will be a little more than you can do with the super-deep variation. To avoid problems, when the reps get really hard (or if your cuff is starting to weird out), use a pressing motion to raise the weight, then lower it as a fly movement.

3) Bench/fly thing 5-6x-a-week. If you're more or less happy with how everything else is coming along, you may want to dedicate a separate session for just the chest and upper torso.

4) During 5s, add the load stretch. At least 15-30 seconds or until you feel your pecs resisting. Make sure you push your sternum out to accentuate the stretch. After so much time, you'll feel your pecs start to resist. That's when the LS starts to work, but you don't want to overdo the time you hold it.

5) Also for 5s, finish by adding a 15-rep burn set for bench, and then pulsing with machine flies or pec-dec, to get extra burn in the pec area. You should get a nice pump in the pec area.

6) Be mindful of your post-WO nutrition.

7) During post-5s, use (unilateral) negatives and make at least 2 increments. If you extend your post-5s to 4 weeks, make 4-5 increments and approach your 120% of 1RM.

cheers,
Jules
 
Many thanks, Jules, think we 're set now. I am in my 5's, so yesterday I started incorporating your techniques in my routine.
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