extending 15s, 10s etc......

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">After the 10th rep, I would pause every 1-2 reps at the starting position, take 4-5 very quick and deep breaths (total 3-6 seconds) anf then procced to the next rep.  Is this cheating?  Does this count as 1 solid set?</div>This is not cheating because the reps are close enough to qualify as a set. It's work that is the most important, not fatigue. Matter of fact, I'm looking into variables between breathing sets (so far useless, IMO and studies), rest-pause, and MS...and a question Sci asked for me about clustered MS. We may come up with a whole new sort of a system here.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I did less Dips than expected (12 dips with 7,5 kgr extra weight).  I felt tired.  Obviously from the DL effort.  
What is the solution to this?  Just rest longer between the exercises? </div>That's what I do when I need it. Same reason as above. We older lifters will automatically need more rest between sets anyway, since our ATP production and glycogen refilling, etc. is slower than younger guys. This enables us to be on the same playing table as them. It's just a fact of life bro. I take up to 5 min. rest between exersize changes too; to no detriment in my routine or results.
 
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(quadancer @ Jan. 16 2008,06:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">We older lifters will automatically need more rest between sets anyway, since our ATP production and glycogen refilling, etc. is slower than younger guys. This enables us to be on the same playing table as them. It's just a fact of life bro. I take up to 5 min. rest between exersize changes too;</div>
Yes, When I take longer rests, I am strong enough to complete the wo. But then it may take 90 minutes. So I cut back secondary exercises (like calf raises), in order not to exceed the 60 min mark too much. Is this what you do to? Should I worry about it?
 
Personally i am not too concerned if the secondary accessory exercises like calfs etc take me over the hour mark. Will be interesting to see what others think.
 
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(bobpit @ Jan. 16 2008,04:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yesterday was my 6th wo for the 15s. I only did 1 set per exercise.

I managed to do new PR in DL (15x118 kgr). But I felt exhausted from the effort. I think I could have pulled one more rep though.

After the 10th rep, I would pause every 1-2 reps at the starting position, take 4-5 very quick and deep breaths (total 3-6 seconds) anf then procced to the next rep. Is this cheating? Does this count as 1 solid set?

After the DL set, I rested for about 4-5 minutes and proceeded to weighted Dips.

I did less Dips than expected (12 dips with 7,5 kgr extra weight). I felt tired. Obviously from the DL effort.

What is the solution to this? Just rest longer between the exercises?

Then I procceded to chinups. Again I did less than I normally do.

Then I did DB military press (standing). Set new PR (15x20 kgr). I guess presses are much less metabolically taxing, so my body could cope with it.

Then I did biceps curls and triceps extentions. Normal performance, could not set any PR there.</div>
15 reps of DL's with 118k (260lbs) would kick anybody's ass'. You might have gone a bit too heavy if you couldn't get 15 continuous reps, but I wouldn't be too concerned. What you did is still pretty damned impressive. Now it's on to the 10's and a bit of well earned relief with the zig-zag.
 
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(quadancer @ Jan. 16 2008,06:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">This is not cheating because the reps are close enough to qualify as a set. It's work that is the most important, not fatigue. Matter of fact, I'm looking into variables between breathing sets (so far useless, IMO and studies), rest-pause, and MS...and a question Sci asked for me about clustered MS. We may come up with a whole new sort of a system here.</div>
I don't think we will come up with a whole new system, but rather some definitions can be developed as to what constitutes a:

regular set
MS set
clustering &quot;set&quot;
official split sets

MS is without a doubt clustering with shorter breaks and clusters of one rep sets.
 
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(colby2152 @ Jan. 16 2008,14:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">regular set
MS set
clustering &quot;set&quot;
official split sets

MS is without a doubt clustering with shorter breaks and clusters of one rep sets.</div>
Here's what these terms mean to me.

&quot;Regular or straight set&quot; is a set that is continuous for a given number of reps, i.e., no pauses until the set is completed.

&quot;MS Set&quot; a set where you rest and get the the weight completely out of your hands for a period of time after each rep. In other words de-loading after every rep.

&quot;Clustering&quot; resting after every 1 or more reps, but still holding the weight. (Not de-loading). Usually done towards the end of a set to complete a pre-determined number reps.

&quot;Official split set&quot; I'm not familiar with this term.
 
I take clustering to include a deload with a break after X amount of reps. Official split sets simply states a number of separate regular sets.
 
Since dead lifts are kind of an animal of their own, I'm curious. How do most of you do your dead lifts? Do you touch and go or do you actually deload the weight? I do a full deload of the weight, take a breath and make sure I'm in a good starting position for the next pull.
 
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(Bulldog @ Jan. 18 2008,17:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Since dead lifts are kind of an animal of their own, I'm curious. How do most of you do your dead lifts? Do you touch and go or do you actually deload the weight?</div>
I usually do my deads Max-Stim (deads are made for Max-Stim!). Thus I set the weight down and wait several seconds before going again.
 
I set the weight down for deads. Henceforth the name &quot;dead&quot;, as in picking up a dead weight.
Clustering by definition is not MS, inasmuch as MS is a system of unloading and rest (M-time) with singles. Clustering is more of a rest-pause system where you rest in order to complete a set. I don't think it matters wether or not you unload the weight. I call it clustering when I stop at say, reps 8 and 13 to hit a total of 15, because there is nothing else that I can really call it.
Rest-pause, OTOH, is more of an organized system where you end your 'clusters' at a given amount of reps before continuing. It is an organized form of fatigue management like MS, but not like MS. (also defined in the MS forum for the same reasons)
 
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(quadancer @ Jan. 18 2008,18:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I set the weight down for deads. Henceforth the name &quot;dead&quot;, as in picking up a dead weight.</div>
Exactly. It is actually harder when unloading the weight on the floor and not taking advantage of the elasticity of the muscles. In the same way, box squats are more difficult than normal squats (if you do them correctly). Hanging completely before doing the next chin-up etc.

Now getting a rest of 4-5 seconds is a different story.
 
Today I did my first &quot;extended 15s&quot; PR of this HST cycle. 15x123 kgr in DL. The duration of the set was 75 seconds.

My previous cycle PR was 15x113 kgr on Nov 29, 2007.

The 15s cycle was set up like this:
SQ/DL kgrs:
day1:56/93
day2:60/98
day3:64/103
day4:68/108
day5:72/113
day6:76/118

On day5 I did SQ 15x72 kgr, as scheduled
On day6 I did DL 15x118 kgr, as scheduled

And then I started the extended 15s:

day7, SQ 15x76 kgr
day8, DL 15x123 kgr

I will try on MON-day9, SQ 15x80 kgr and then I think I will go to 10s.
 
Is this CNS overtraining?

This was the 10th! Workout of the 15s cycle. Last DL PR was 15x123 kgr, 5 days ago. I aimed for 15x128. I only did 8x128. 2nd set was 1x128. 3rd set was 2x128. I lifted 10x128 kgr on 17th Dec 2007, so this is ridiculous performance. On 2nd and 3rd sets I did not feel tired. But my body just seemed unwilling to lift.

My previous cycle DL-PR was 15x113 kgr on Nov 29, 2007.

I thought I protected my CNS by reducing volume. Workouts 6-10 were very intense (New PRs on every wo) but with only 1 set per exercise.

Wo#9 I did new PR for SQ: 15x80 kgr. I felt strong, I could have done 1-2 more reps. I also set new PRs for BP, BB-row and BB Military press that day. It was great!

As I said on this post http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/cgi-bin....y131514 , I extended this 15s cycle way much, doing new PRs. Should I now start the 10s? Should I rest for a week to recover CNS?

I am thinking more of starting the 10s very light. Start with weights 5% lower than the ones scheduled for wo#1. So make the 10s a 7 wo cycle.
 
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