fat gains only -> flaws in routine??

[keenef4]

I have been 1 month on this first HST cycle and just did a body composition test today to check for results.
the results was 4 pounds or so gains in fat ONLY and completely no change in lean body mass.

I am very frustrated 'cause after reading all the science on HST and Maxstim, I give so much trusts on them.

Plz give my any advices 'cause i do not know what i did WRONG.  

NUTRITION:
I estimated my calories intake based on the formula body weight times 20 leading to 3000 calories a day which is divided in to 6 meals including pre and post workout liquid meals.
on whole food meals, i really stay away from high GI carbs except fruits, and satured fats.

TRAINING:
Since i have no real experience on bodybuilding except the science achieved from this forum, I am following the simplify and win program of Fausto.
below is a shot of my program and here is a summary:

3 times a week
chest dips
close grip chins
military presses
full squats

non-workout days i do slow rope-skipping which leaves me no problem with knees

the routine seems to be quite normal, at least to me, based on what i have been reading in this forum. prior starting this cycle i did have a 2 week SD.

my history in bodybuilding is very short. before this cycle, i only had trained for only about 2 months of regular routine. as i said i did a body composition test prior starting the 1st HST cycle, a gain of 5 pounds of LBM and a lost of 12 pounds of fats was the results of that 2 months and 2 weeks. I believed that is just a newbie result but i do NOT understand why am i NOT gaining or am i platueing which does not seem to be reseasonal to my very newbie condition.

any advices are welcome and appreciated!!!  

PS: i can't figure out how to post an image in this forum since it keeps saying this "You are not allowed to use that image extension on this board. A valid format is: http://www.domain.com/picture.gif. An invalid format is: http://www.domain.com/picture.one.gif"
so, here is a direct link to my image. its kind of small so plz zoom it up
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9726/1stcyclekq9.png

 

[lcars]

whoa..slow down there bro,its early days yet,i wouldnt expect to see much until about 3 months.it is possible to make quick gains and lose fat,but i that all depends on diet and genetics,plus your training technique.

are you sure you have put all fat on?and not lbm.

 

[keenef4]

thanks for your quick reply lcars
yes i am sure. unless the machine was wrong.
my LBM was constantly 125 why my fat goes up 4 pounds along with my total body weight (fat percent increases from 16 to 18)
i don't my numbers here but ill post them tonight when i get home.
i think the reason is because, as i read on this forum of course, i dont gain LBM in the beginning of the cycle but rather at the end. however, i'm in the first week of 5s already.
one flaw i have to admit here is that i only estimate my RMs but as I heard from this forum, we should stop before failure which is when contraction starts to be slow and form is slightly lost. that's why i think i'm still kind of on track although my RM are not completely correct ( last workout which is the 1st of 5s, i stopped at about 6 or 7 reps. so i guess my estimations are still relatively correct).
I really have no idea

 

[bluejacket]

i agree with lcars, your jumping to conclusions too soon.

a few things. body compositions tests can be a good idea but rarely are they "pinpoint accurate". you could be tested 4 days in a row by 4 diff people and chances are all 4 measurements would be diff. over time, with the same person measuring they can possibly get more accurate but trying to gauge progress on these measurements alone can be maddening.

take your example, youve gained 4lbs in a month at a bodywgt of 154 (deduced from your #s). thats a change of @ 2.5% in your total body wgt. not really much of a change to go on.

your diet seems fine for a beginner (although bwx20 seems high it is giving you @ 1lb a week gain which is a good goal) as does your w/o. givin time you will grow stronger and bigger on this program (and learn a lot about lifting/dieting) but only if you stick with it for a while and dont try to over analyze it all.

be patient, no one can learn/know everything all at once. it will take time to find out what program, weights, foods, diet plan etc etc work best for you.

good luck

 

[scientific muscle]

How many sets are you doing, With only 4 exercises you should eb doing 30 reps total per exercises. (2x15, 3x10, 6x5).
I am doing only 3 exercises each session, 30 reps each though so it is still alot of workload.

 

[HectaM]

Another quick thing to think about:

You said that you are getting approx 3,000 calories a day. But did not mention what types of foods you are eating other than Carbs.

Are you getting enough protein?

You should be eating at least 1x your bodyweight in grams of protein a day.

For example: If you weigh 150 pounds, eat at least 150 grams of protein, if you weigh 200 pounds, eat at least 200 grams of protein.

That may be part of the equation.

 

[cxw]

I do wonder about your volume. If it's too low then you may note be getting sufficient stimulus. If it's too high then you'll be under systemic stress and have elevated stress hormones (cortisol)?

In the introduction to HST there's a bit about whether you should increase or decrease volume, I suggest you read this.

 

[keenef4]

thanks for all the answers
i'm doing 30 reps per exercise although mastim recommends 15-20 (cause as u know, young cocks always overlook themselves  

). then, i read sci's post about his first vanillla HST, people were saying that 30 reps were too muuch so i was kind of worried but finally tried and up to now it seems to be fine for me.

HectaM, as many recommendations, i eat approximately 150g protein (bodyweight in pounds) and about same from fats, rest are carbs which means around 25,25,50.

i know it's early to see big results but should there be at least a small change in LBM but no, only fats, that is kind of scary because i cpmpletely have trust on the principles of HST and MaxStim so which means i am doing something wrong that i do NOT know  

 

[bluejacket]

<div>
(keenef4 @ May 03 2007,17:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">i know it's early to see big results but should there be at least a small change in LBM but no, only fats, that is kind of scaty because i cpmpletely have trust on the principles of HST and MaxStim so which means i did something wrong that i do NOT know  

</div>
no, what youve written is incorrect.

you completely trust your bodycomp measurement telling you that youve gained all fat and no muscle despite the fact its been only 1 month and 4lbs.

one of the trusted principles of HST/maxstim is that over TIME following a good program with a good diet will produce results.

i cant think of anywhere in either program (hst or maxstim) where it mentions getting body comp tests each month yet it is the entire basis for you considering your routine/program to be flawed.

 

[Lol]

Sounds like you have thought your cycle through pretty well.

A few things:

1) Don't take what a machine body comp reading says as gospel. I have read that they are often inaccurate. 4lbs is peanuts anyway. I can drink a few glasses of water and be 4lbs heavier just like that. Is the machine going to tell me that's lean mass or fat? When you get into serious training you are looking for results over much longer periods. I think 20 weeks is a good amount of time to see if you have made some hypertrophic progress. Prior to that you may make strength gains due to a great deal of neural learning in each exercise.

2) What are the actual loads that you are using? ie. What are your RMs for each exercise? Your loads for presses go from 20 at the start of 15s to 80 at the end of 5s! What's that about? You should be using around 50% of your 1RM at the start of the cycle or 75% of your 15RM. If your 15RM is 40 then you should be starting at around 30. However, if your 5RM is 80 then your 1RM would be about 90. So that would have you starting the cycle at around 45? Something isn't adding up. I suspect you aren't including the bar in your figures?

3) Why are your loads for dips and chins dropping down over your cycle? My guess (I'm doing a lot of that!) is that you are using some kind of leverage machine where you effectively reduce your body weight? Thats OK I suppose but what does 115 mean? Are you reducing your bodyweight by 115lbs?! I think you would be better just working on bodyweight chins and dips until you can reach your target reps.

4) Your squat poundages seem pretty decent which makes me wonder... are you doing free-weight full squats or are these machine variants? If you can use a bar and a squat rack then do so now. Work on your form and your flexibility and make them a part of your life. You will be glad you did. If, on the other hand, you are doing 5 full squats with 210 on your first cycle then good for you. 30 reps with that load will give your body a reason to grow some lean mass.  

Let us know some stats like bodyweight, height and your RMs for each exercise and I'm sure that we can all offer some better advice.

 

[keenef4]

thanks for yours concerns,
i did a body composition test after just 1 month of the cycle because i wanne see how my estimations on the calories are and how newbie i am. as people are saying that newbie makes good gains at the beginning even on insufficient nutrition. and i have been training for only 2 months (1 month in orginal training principles because i had not yet found HST and another here in 1st HST cycle), so i suppose i'm still a immediate newbie if not beginning

here are the stats of 2 tests taken 1 month apart:

Weight 148.5 153
% fat 16 18
Fat 23.3 27
LBM 125 125
% water 62 60

Waist 29 1/2 31
the rests are roughly similar

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">2) What are the actual loads that you are using? ie. What are your RMs for each exercise? Your loads for presses go from 20 at the start of 15s to 80 at the end of 5s! What's that about? You should be using around 50% of your 1RM at the start of the cycle or 75% of your 15RM. If your 15RM is 40 then you should be starting at around 30. However, if your 5RM is 80 then your 1RM would be about 90. So that would have you starting the cycle at around 45? Something isn't adding up. I suspect you aren't including the bar in your figures?</div>

i only found out my 15RM and estimated the rest. however, as I heard from this forum, we should stop before failure which is when contraction starts to be slow and form is slightly lost. that's why i think i'm still kind of on track although my RM are not completely correct ( last workout which is the 1st of 5s, i stopped at about 6 or 7 reps. so i guess my estimations are still relatively correct).

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">3) Why are your loads for dips and chins dropping down over your cycle? My guess (I'm doing a lot of that!) is that you are using some kind of leverage machine where you effectively reduce your body weight? Thats OK I suppose but what does 115 mean? Are you reducing your bodyweight by 115lbs?! I think you would be better just working on bodyweight chins and dips until you can reach your target reps.</div>

they are decreasing becaused the machines i'm using have weights to assist the bodyweight if user is not able to do chins/dips on their own bdw. and i am that user, i can't do without assisted

. as the weight decreases, it means that the assistance is less and its harder to chin/dip.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">4) Your squat poundages seem pretty decent which makes me wonder... are you doing free-weight full squats or are these machine variants? If you can use a bar and a squat rack then do so now. Work on your form and your flexibility and make them a part of your life. You will be glad you did. If, on the other hand, you are doing 5 full squats with 210 on your first cycle then good for you. 30 reps with that load will give your body a reason to grow some lean mass.</div>

i'm using a hack squat machine and my gym they have weights like 2.5, 5, 10, 25, ... lbs. so its very easy for small increments.

i'm sorry if anyone thinks that's i'm whining. i am just looking for suggestions to know that what i have done wrong because even though i has been only 1 month, there should be a least 1 or 2 lbs in LBM as i'm still a beginner.

and also, at this time of year, people seem be be cutting while me, i'm bulking so it should be worth it, right?

 

[Lol]

I don't think your main compound moves are really stressing your body like they should be. I would forget the hack squats. Get onto full barbell back squats if at all possible. Yes, they are more difficult to do but you will make much better overall gains from them. If you really can't do them for whatever reason then do deadlifts instead. My feeling would be that you could easily do both deadlifts and squats at this stage in your lifting career. I think you would get good gains from doing them both as, combined, they pretty much stress your entire system. Once your strength picks up after a few cycles you can alternate them as necessary. At this point you could do one early in your workout and one later. ie. don't do them back to back. The choice is up to you but I always preferred to do squats first and deads to finish up.

I understand why you are using the assisted machines. They are OK to a point but I think you would do better just building up your strength with bodyweight chins and dips. Seeing that you are now in the 5s just do as many unassisted reps as you can for your first set then cluster the rest until you reach your target. You are not heavy so hopefully this should be possible. Once you can make 5 reps for your first set don't push past that for now. Keep something in the tank for the second set. When you can do 4 or 5 sets of 5 with your body weight you will have made some good progress and will probably be able to manage a set of 10 reps for your first set. Then it'll be time to start adding some extra load for your 5s.

If you are really struggling to get your reps with just your bodyweight then another tip for this cycle is to do some negatives for your dips and chins. Use a bench or other platform to help you to get in the top position for each exercise and then lower with good form in 2 or 3 seconds. Rinse and repeat. Sets of 5 should be fine. Really concentrate on performing a smooth lowering motion. When you can't control the downward motion, stop! Negs can really help boost your strength levels which is just what you need for these two compounds.

Similar thing applies to presses. Use a barbell if at all possible. You can switch to push-presses after 5s to keep the loads progressing.

Be sure to keep a note of your 10RM and 5RM loads once you figure out what they are for your next cycle OR test for them right at the end of this cycle. It's very difficult to accurately estimate 10RM &amp; 5RM loads from 15RM loads.

For tips on exercise performance go here:

Muscle &amp; Exercise Directory

 

[keenef4]

really appreciated for ur respond lol

I understand your suggestions but if i change exercise (from hack squat machine to real barbell squat) I will slightly mix up my progression (perhaps it does not matter much) and to really learn proper technique on barbell squat is not very easy. I have done one attempt in the past: i put the same weight i did on the hack squat machine on the barbell and try to squat but godz, it felt much heavier and really hurt my rear shoulders too due to the heavy weight.

In addition, its kind of weird that no body in my gym does barbell squat so when i started do myself, people were like staring at me

. it makes me nervous and worry if i did something stupid on my form or so

for dips and chins, as you suggest, on bdw, i have tried and achieved 1 rep

. so i think it will be a very long time until i get 5 rep out of this skinny body. then, my weight will be progressive which is one of the main principles.

about presses, is overhead press similar to military press in terms of weight and effect? is it possible to substitute push press by overhead press 'cause push press seems to be kind of too hard on the ankle (at the bottom and the top of the contraction when u hold the weight)?

Thank you for the link. I have been always going there for exercises performance when i saw it the first time in this forum.

In conclusion, i will keep doing HST and finish this cycle to see some results (of course, what else can i do? i don't think i will ever switch to orginal principles. just looking at all the intense-enhancing techniques makes me crazy enough

). However, i suppose that i should decrease a little bit of calories so that instead of 1lbs per week down to 1 lbs or so per 2 weeks. a slow bulk is safer in this case, i guess

thank you every one and happy lifting!

 

[bgates1654]

I measure my BF% everyday and ignore the ups and downs. It varies upwards of 2% for me despite measuring right after the morning piss consistently. I know I can get it to measure 4+% higher by doing everything &quot;wrong&quot;. I only pay attention to weekly averages and compare them. Sometimes even that can be deceiving.

 

[Ruthenian]

bgates and others are correct -- bioimpedence tests can be quite variable.  I take mine at the end of the day right before dinner -- you are too dehydrated in the morning to get an accurate reading.  I can also get this reading to move around, mostly by how much attention I pay to staying hydrated during the day. Without some care, day-to-day variations of 2% are common. 

I've beat this drum before, but you really have to verify your body comp machine.  My Tanita appears to work great for me, but others don't have much luck with them.  Do you have access to calipers or hydrostatic testing? It would be really odd to have gained only fat and no LBM, so there is likely some problem with your readings.  

As to your routine, the advice given so far is sound.  I do wonder if your cardio (slow rope) is very effective at fat burning.  Some folks don't like to do much cardio when bulking, but I find it helps to burn off the fat, especially if you can do some interval training.

 

[the_dark_master]

Ruth'n - Spot on with the timing for weighing/BF% reading; most do the &quot;first thing in a morning, after a piss&quot; Like you say, in the morning the body is dehydrated; synovial fluid is viscous, and what other fluid there is - has a tendancy to pool in the lower extrmeties, coupled with urination the ol' Tanita's not got a chance!

 

[Slapshotz]

Am I the only one who thinks that a 1.5 inch gain in the waist in just 4 weeks is way too much? Most people don't gain that much in their midsection in a whole cycle.

I think two things happened....you ate slightly too much, and your lbm measurement was a bit off. I'm sure you didn't gain all fat, but that type of waist size increase tells me you need to lower calories a tad.

 

[Maximuscrates]

<div>
(Slapshotz @ May 04 2007,07:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">&quot;Am I the only one who thinks that a 1.5 inch gain in the waist in just 4 weeks is way too much? Most people don't gain that much in their midsection in a whole cycle.&quot;</div>
maybe the waist is a little bloated.

How much fibre are you eating? Aim for 38g!

 

[leegee38]

I think you are getting erroneous readings, Keenef4, and here is why: In studies where people did absolutely no training at all and were just force fed food they gain approximately one pound of lean mass for every 2 lbs of fat. You watched what you ate and exercised, but gained ALL fat? Unless you have the worst nutrient partitioning in the history of mankind, I think your results are wrong. Stick with it and see if your weights go up in your workout. That will be your first clue as to whether you are progressing or not. As others have said, don't panic yet. Good luck!

 

[Martin Levac]

Keenef4, concerning doing your exercises with a barbell instead of a machine.

Since you are a beginner, you must learn the lifts. So, learn the lifts. Begin with an empty barbell if you must. You can make it a habit of using the empty barbell as a warm-up before you load the bar. Lifting a barbell requires skill just like any other activity. As you progress and with practice, you will be able to lift heavier weights because of greater skill and greater strength.

The squat. The squat is a lift that often serves as a foundation to a program. After the deadlift, it's the most demanding lift and the most stimulating lift. Learn this lift properly. While you're at it, learn the deadlift properly as well. Don't worry about looking like a fool since you say nobody does the squat at your gym. There's a good chance they don't know how a squat must be done anyway.

The military press is also called the overhead press. The push press is an overhead press that is started with a jerk to lift the bar past the sticking point in order to lift a heavier weight than otherwise.

You could check out youtube for video examples of all the lifts you want to learn.