combat_action
New Member
Thanks a lot. Nice to see other's like yourself frequent the hidden gem sites like elite. Awesome strength training posts over yonder.
Hypertrophier
New Member
Hi. I don´t think you know what load and unload means. Also, there is no black or white. So if you compare "teh DF style with teh standard 5x5 program", i think you haven´t understand it at all. Did you ever train this way? Or do you just copy and paste, and do you think that it´s just this only way, black or white? For your interest, there are many other coaches than just Coach Pendlay. And if you just read Pendlay, you just know Pendlay.[b said:Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ Sep. 26 2005,7:13)]Compare teh DF style with teh standard 5x5 program Glenn recommends and you have two seperate things. Both unload, however one is specifically designed to over-reach, a point most people dont need to hit.[b said:Quote[/b] (Hypertrophier @ Sep. 27 2005,12:51)]True. You load, and then unload. Pretty complicated.
he ahs also said none of the programs are magical or required to achieve anything. His comments int he past have been do the simplest until it doesnt work. When you become advanced level lifter you need more complicated stuff to progress, most people just need to spend more time under the bar. Dual factor is for the upper level, becuase to achieve significant gains you have to plan far in advance, and develop a system to allow adequate fatigue and recovery to achieve optimal gains. I dont think I have talked to many people on this board who approach advanced/elite level. I certainly am not.
And FWIW, Glenn also has a book comming out shortly.
Shall be no offense, but it looks like you have just the "pendlayview". And you just know what he says, not what he knows. Next time, you should link to the other forum, where you quote from. Then the others have the possibility to get more pendlay posts, and make their own uncensored decisions, and further more, they can asks pendlay himself, instead of reading some abbreviated lines.
I repeat it, you just have to load, and then unload. No magic.
The questionmarked sentences are questions. Would be cool if you answer them.
who said it was the only way. We are comparing a standard 5x5 as popularised by starr to DF as popularised by Matt Reynolds, john smith, madcow etc...[b said:
I guess your meaning load as meaning a period of loading (by whatever means) to try and achieve the state of over-reaching (a non-specific goal) and the concept of deloading/unloading to describe the manipulation of ntensity or frequency or volume to recover from the over-reached state and achieve the gains induced from the overall training period?
Having read stuff from Doug Hepburn to Jim Wendler and onwards, what other coaches are you specifically talking about? Maybe we should go sets of 5 like hepburn did, combined with singles, or maybe mike mcdonalds type setup?, or Ted Arcidi? Or even multiple sets of 5 like utilized by coan/cpt kirk etc? Or maybe we just play with some of the meta-analysis research of Rhea and analyse adequate volume frequency and loading to devleop strength in novice or experienced athletes to come up with a similar loading frame, volume and frequency put forward by starr years ago? or maybe some of the early western commentaries on supercompensation by McFarlane? Or utilze texts from Siff or Zatsiorsky etc[b said:
Or just use the likes of Louies set-up and do the ME/DE fun or maybe Boris Sheiko's olympic lifting setup to Powerlifting? or even go the insane route towards smolov? or try to manipulate the bulgarian methodology of olympic lifting into the powerlifting construct.?
Millions of 'coaches' and sources of information.
Hmm, pendlayview? on a thread about 5x5 and combined with Bill starr's older work, Pendlay and Rippetoe are amonst the modern propoents of hte 5x5, and who's work has been split into the DF program? and not mention pendlay at all? Would that mean I shouldnt mention Bill Starr in the context of a 5x5 program? in case somebody thinks I have Starr-view?[b said:
Abbreviated? posting entire posts is not abbreviated any way. And posting links, perhaps, but then wont people just know what he says and not what he knows? or will they beable to magically understand everything that he does by talking to him on the internet?[b said:
If its just load nad unload, why is the OP having issues with trying to setup a program?[b said:
why does it take usually long or multiple articles to describe 'load and unload'?
Its not just load and unload. Its loading to achieve a specific level of fatigue followed by a period of unloading/deloading/accumulation/intensification to produce supercompensation over a mesocycle (weeks/months) rather than the single factor ie microcycle (days/week) focus (Matt reynolds often uses supercompsation to describe only the microcycle focus rather than the overall response to fatiguing/deloading setup in a macrocycle setup which is still supercompensation, just setup over a longer time period).
Without adequate planning (or a reasonable coach who does it for you) you are not going to achieve optimal results, and without some planning you can often get worse results (excessive fatigue making it difficult to recover from).
If the OP cannot setup the program, which direction do you think he will go from the 'load and unload' philosophy?
aww, taht would require looking again
here goes all of glenns posts there
http://www.ruggedmag.com/forums....e=posts
here goes all of glenns posts there
http://www.ruggedmag.com/forums....e=posts
combat_action
New Member
Hey Chthonian, are you Anthrax Invasion over at elitefitness?
http://elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=429238
http://elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=429238
Why, yes...Yes I am. I also used to be Tom Treutlein, until they banned me for bitching about the chat & conversation board people. They're morons over there on C&C, so I had to make a new name. Before that, I was Legion Kreinak. What name will I think of next?
Oh my GOD that was like a fruit roll-up commercial.
Oh my GOD that was like a fruit roll-up commercial.
Hypertrophier
New Member
Okay, you know some names, but do you know what they say?[b said:
You think load and unload is complicated? Every load and unload article deals at first with the history and some filling lines. Summed up, it´s just this: Do something, then do less. That is load and unload. After you load and unload, you load and unload again. No magic, and no state to reach. If you focus on a state you could get some real problems, cause the individuals aren´t the same. So they have to use their instinct, and you should know that, after reading all your lines from these authorities. Perhaps you should search some more about the topic, especially some other authors who don´t make it that complicated.
Your kidding right?[b said:
Load and unload. you can relate this into a single session, micro or macro cycle
now what is the point of dual factor? maybe its to seperate it into a macro cycle focus, with a desire to instill adequate fatigue to get maximal supercompensation.?
What level of loading will achieve this?
what level of unloading will achieve this?
what level of fatigue needs to be achieved?
how will you measure this fatigue?
Why do the vast majority of the training world not recommend this for beginers to intermediate trainees?
Hypertrophier
New Member
Do what you want. Perhaps the first thing is match your input and output.
I
imported_goal220
Guest
Well, back to my original post. Into my 3rd week, I`ve bested my squat and bench. Rows are new so I don`t have a true frame of reference. I have added significant LBM with a little bit of fat. Overall my gains have been above what I`ve done on HST. I`ve come to the conclusion though that probably has much more to do with the fact that I am getting a lot more calories in my diet. I jacked up my shoulder a bit on bench today so I may have to shorten my program or enter deloading earlier than expected. I may take an extra day off this week and possibly skip Friday completely to allow myself to recover. Hopefully I won`t have to stop. Rather than stop, I thought I might cut out bench until I`ve recovered enough to add it back in. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Flat benching can be dangerous to the rotator cuffs, to be honest. If you can get by with it, fine. If not, you can switch to incline, which many find to be more comfortable.
If you don't mind losing some time with your upper body gains in size and strength, you can cut out pressing movements for now. Use an underhand grip for pulling movements, though, if your injury is a cuff-related one. If not, stick to what you normally do, minus the bench until you feel better.
Mixed-grip or pronated on deadlifts, so there's no confusion. I'd never recommend a supinated grip for deads.
If you don't mind losing some time with your upper body gains in size and strength, you can cut out pressing movements for now. Use an underhand grip for pulling movements, though, if your injury is a cuff-related one. If not, stick to what you normally do, minus the bench until you feel better.
Mixed-grip or pronated on deadlifts, so there's no confusion. I'd never recommend a supinated grip for deads.
savagebeast
New Member
goal220,
I've also been doing 5x5 and I had the same problem a few weeks ago with my shoulder hurting a bit from bench pressing. Also, my ankle and knees were starting to act up as well. For my shoulder, I just started doing some of the exercises from Eric Cressey's Cracking the Rotator Cuff Conundrum. I don't follow sets, reps, or tempo schemes in the article, I just do 1 or 2 sets (that's total sets, not sets for each of the 4 lifts in the article) of 15 reps with a pretty light weight after I've finished the rest of my workout. So just pick an exercises from the article and do a set or two at the end of your workout. Sometimes, if I'm really drained at the end of the workout, I'll do a set or two at my place just using some light dumbbells instead.
And as far as sore knees and ankles, I started doing 1 set of both leg extensions and seated calf press at the end of my workout, using a really light weight and getting 15 reps.
Doing these few extra sets at the end of your workout doesn't take much out of you, and ever since I started I've had pretty much no more joint soreness.
I've also been doing 5x5 and I had the same problem a few weeks ago with my shoulder hurting a bit from bench pressing. Also, my ankle and knees were starting to act up as well. For my shoulder, I just started doing some of the exercises from Eric Cressey's Cracking the Rotator Cuff Conundrum. I don't follow sets, reps, or tempo schemes in the article, I just do 1 or 2 sets (that's total sets, not sets for each of the 4 lifts in the article) of 15 reps with a pretty light weight after I've finished the rest of my workout. So just pick an exercises from the article and do a set or two at the end of your workout. Sometimes, if I'm really drained at the end of the workout, I'll do a set or two at my place just using some light dumbbells instead.
And as far as sore knees and ankles, I started doing 1 set of both leg extensions and seated calf press at the end of my workout, using a really light weight and getting 15 reps.
Doing these few extra sets at the end of your workout doesn't take much out of you, and ever since I started I've had pretty much no more joint soreness.