First serious HST try, lots of q:s though

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Sniggel

New Member
Hello everyone, this is my first post and I will have a lot of questions and my mother tongue is swedish so not everything will be perfect language here so bare with me.  
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In the start of this post I will mostly "babble" so if you scroll down you will get to the questions immediately.
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I am a 25 yo guy from Sweden who have trained for 8 years. The first years were semi-serious and it started getting more and more serious the last 3 years. This last year I have had very good results.

I have many goals, I want to be stronger (this was the reason i started) but I also started to like looking big a couple of years ago so another goal is to become bigger. I also want to be lean and acrobatic, well, I have some more goals but thats not really OnT.
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I have tried many different methods of lifting before and I prefer lifting heavy weights with low reps (so they can be really heavy), thats why a program called MAX-OT became so popular for me and gave me great results (mostly strength) and have influenced my training ever since i used it.

I have also tried HST once before but I didnt really have the time to do it really seriously so the results were just "fair".
Now I'm going for a second try which will be very serious. I have started testing my 15-rep weights and will continue with 10s in a few days, and then 5s.
Then I will have the SD period.

Now to my questions:

Q:
I really like training often.
Can I train 5 days a week (mo-fri) instead of 3 or should I really wait those 48 hours that muscle growth occur, will 24 hours rest hamper my gains? I mean since its so low volume per training I think it should be ok.
I saw a suggestion of doing AM/PM split also which will give one rest day between training days.

Q:
I really like Deadlifts, Squats and Benchpress.
Is it stupid to train them all every time i train since they are quite heavy exercises. I mean, since I will only do one set of them per occasion, and that they will be very far from failure most of the time, maybe its ok anyway. Maybe I could do squats + bench one exercise and the other i do deadlift + bench and alternate between the two each time.

Thanks in advance

/Sniggel
 
I only recommend 3xweek.  It takes time to recover in my opinion.  Some may say you can train everyday, but for me personally this is way too much.

No problem doing squats, deads and benches every workout...if you are very strong though, during the 5s when weights are heavy, you may need to alternate squats with deads..(Mon- squat, wed- deadlift, fri- squat, mon- dead, etc.)  Alot of guys can't believe you can do a full-body workout 3/week.  But if you keep the number of exercises down, and keep the number of sets down also, this is not a problem.

This is what I do personally.-

1)Squat
2)Straight-leg deadlifts
3)Chin-ups
4)DB rows
5)Bench Press
6)Seated DB Press

Regardless of sets, I do 20 total reps for every exercise and I do this 2-3/week depending on how heavy I go.
 
Also, since you are advanced I would recommend more volume, instead of more frequency.  Keep the 3/week frequency, but add sets until you hit 20-30 reps.  for example if you are aiming for 30 reps per exercise...do 2 sets of 15s, 3 sets of 10s, and during the 5s do 6 sets.  That way you are always doing 30 reps per exercise, regardless of load.  This is why I recommend keeping to the basic compound lifts, because 30 reps is quite a bit, even for an advanced guy like you.
 
Ok thanks for the input scientific muscle.
Alternating deads and squats at the tough days (end of 15s 10s and 5s or maybe just end of 5s) might be a good idea.
I did have problems before when I trained a full body workout doing these 2 both, so i solved the problem with alternating them and got more energy for the rest of the exercises that way, maybe this solution will be nessecary here too at some time of the 8 weeks.
 
<div>
(scientific muscle @ Oct. 11 2006,18:25)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Also, since you are advanced I would recommend more volume, instead of more frequency.  Keep the 3/week frequency, but add sets until you hit 20-30 reps.  for example if you are aiming for 30 reps per exercise...do 2 sets of 15s, 3 sets of 10s, and during the 5s do 6 sets.  That way you are always doing 30 reps per exercise, regardless of load.  This is why I recommend keeping to the basic compound lifts, because 30 reps is quite a bit, even for an advanced guy like you.</div>
Hmm, yes I will try it out. If i keep it down to 3 times a week, 30 reps total seems like a good idea as long as the HST concept is still there, which it is.

I have a lot of exercises though (somewhere around 20 i think). For back I have 4 so on 5s that would be 24 sets
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Do you think 20 exercises is too much?
 
Well, hehe I´m a bit tired
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didn't think clearly, its 0:59 in the night here atm.
I should probably stick to 1 set to start with and just feel what my body tells me. Maybe I could do 1 set on 15s, 1 or 2 sets on 10s and 3 sets on 5s like Ive seen some people here recommending.
 
Hey Sniggel,

The advice given so far is good. Start with &quot;vanilla&quot; HST and listen to your body from there.

Personally, due to my work schedule I have to train every other day. One day on, one day off. Cardio on off days when I'm doing cardio.

This gives me 4 workouts one week, 3 workouts the next week. The results doing this have been very good.

I also have done HST in two ways:
1- 15x2, 10x3, 5x5, 5x5, 5x5
and
2- 15x1, 10x2, 5x3, 5x3 (still doing this one but not as happy with the results)

next time I'm going to do this

3- 12x2, 10x2+4, 8x3, 5x5

DO NOT CHANGE YOUR PLAN MID CYCLE UNLESS YOU FIND THAT YOUR PLAN IS TOO HARD.

The reason for this is because the light weights you start each training block with will seem like you aren't doing enough - then when the weights get heavier towards the end, suddenly you realize you are doing plenty of work.

Start with the simplest plan. If you don't feel you worked hard enough - try my plan 3. If after that you don't feel the work was enough - try my plan 1.

I gained 30lbs on plan 1 in case you are wondering how effective it is. I also got hurt in the 5th week so be careful - it is very difficult.
 
Thanks vagrant. I think Ill stick to 3x a week and since i have 20 exercises I will keep the sets low.

One more question.

On low-weight exercises, if i do the small increment of 5 lbs, the weight would start at around 50% (or even lower) of 15RM.
example:
One arm curl (lbs) - 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40
is it ok to something like this instead:
One arm curl (lbs) - 25, 30, 30, 35, 35, 40

Because if 100% of 15RM is around 65%(?) of 1RM then 50% of 15RM is 32.5% of 1RM then it seems to me it should be too low to stimulate enough load on the muscle.

What I´ve learned muscle stimuli needs to be at least 65% of 1RM to grow, but maybe I just should forget that since a good SD will make the muscle more sensitive?
 
yes you can do this 25, 30, 30, 35, 35, 40
it also stops zigzaging.
you can keep the sets low or instead of doing 4 back exercises do 2 and more sets what ever you feel is good for you ..good luck
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20 exercises! what do you have, neck isos!

You can work out everyday for sure. Id do a push pull split with a low volume like 15 reps

A
Bench
ATG Squat
Mil press

opt tricep, calf, iso

B
bent over row
deadlift
pull ups

opt bi, hamstring iso

btw
 
Sniggel

Your bets bet is to go with exrxicse recommendation given by sci muscle.

Keep things simple, style gave you another option, if you want to do 5x/week training you have to spread the load so that it does not become too much, his split is alright!

If you serach around the forum you will find enough info to help you along.

You would be better off doing a straight 5 - 6 main compond exercises for 3 x week, and 15 x 1 / 10 x 2 or even x 1.5 / 5 x 3, although you can go the 30- rep route, it gets quite tough though.

Isolations mostr of us would do some arm work from the 5's onwards only as an add on and not as a main exercise.

Cheers
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<div>
(Sniggel @ Oct. 12 2006,16:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Neck isos?  
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What is that?  
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I have 20 exercises 1 set each basically, thats because HST recommends roughly that amount.
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_II.html</div>
Neck iso er f.eks shrugs..(isolasjonsøvelse for nakken)

Er enig med Fausto om at du burde holde deg til baseøvelser, f.eks. isteden for å ta 1 sett på 3 forskjellige øvelser på lår kan du 1 sett knebøy
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<div>
(Fausto @ Oct. 12 2006,18:41)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sniggel

Your bets bet is to go with exrxicse recommendation given by sci muscle.

Keep things simple, style gave you another option, if you want to do 5x/week training you have to spread the load so that it does not become too much, his split is alright!

If you serach around the forum you will find enough info to help you along.

You would be better off doing a straight 5 - 6 main compond exercises for 3 x week, and 15 x 1 / 10 x 2 or even x 1.5 / 5 x 3, although you can go the 30- rep route, it gets quite tough though.

Isolations mostr of us would do some arm work from the 5's onwards only as an add on and not as a main exercise.

Cheers
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</div>
I started wih a 15 rep total which im going too keep for my first 8 week cycle, and Im considering 20 for my next, then 25, and if that goes well Ill maybe try 30 rep total.. any thoughts?
 
Ok, thanks for all input. I have decided to keep my many exercises still. I do know that the compound movements often are the most efficient ones compared to isolation movements, but I havent done many isolations in a ling time and i feel like incorporating them now, a bit for fun, and a bit because I think they will help.
I will limit the amount of sets to mostly 1 since i have so many exercises, the effect should be roughly the same as what sci muscle suggested, except that the sets will be kept constant through 15s 10s and 5s.

Ok, sorry if this feels like spamming but here are my exercises (yes i have neck isos lol!) The bold ones are what i feel i must do, the important ones.

Legs (with some upper body stabilizing during squat)
Squat 1 set
Leg curl in machine:
1 set quadriceps 1 set hamstrings (i feel these help me develop leg strength for my squats)

Chest (with tris)
Benchpress 1 set
Incline bench 1 set
Dips 1 set

Back (with some legwork and a little biceps during deadlift)
Deadlift 1 set
Chins or &quot;Latissimus pull&quot; 1 set
Cabel Row 1 set
One arm row from ground (dont know the real name) 1 set

Traps
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lol
Shrugs (neck isos baby!)

Shoulders (with some tris)
Standing press above head 2 sets

Biceps
Curl:
1 set barbell 1 set dumbbell

Triceps
Pushdown 1 set
One arm extension 1 set

Calves
Standing press in smith 1 set
Sitting press in some machine thingy 1 set

Abs
Abs Machine 2 sets


I know that I could skip a lot of these exercises but they add to the fun factor so I dont want to. I think since I have been doing a very high frequency lately (7 days a week) having a rest day 4 days a week will make it doable to have energy for these many exercises. If its too much I will just have to remove some of the flashy exercises (maybe too much arms, but they are a priority atm), no big deal.

Also I want to say that you guys here seems to be a nice bunch of people, very helpful.
 
<div>
(Sniggel @ Oct. 12 2006,12:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">One more question.

On low-weight exercises, if i do the small increment of 5 lbs, the weight would start at around 50% (or even lower) of 15RM.
example:
One arm curl (lbs) - 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40
is it ok to something like this instead:
One arm curl (lbs) - 25, 30, 30, 35, 35, 40

Because if 100% of 15RM is around 65%(?) of 1RM then 50% of 15RM is 32.5% of 1RM then it seems to me it should be too low to stimulate enough load on the muscle.

What I´ve learned muscle stimuli needs to be at least 65% of 1RM to grow, but maybe I just should forget that since a good SD will make the muscle more sensitive?</div>
Personally, I wouldn't start below 65/70% of my 15RM. If that's a problem with db exercises just repeat loads a few times as necessary as in your second option.
 
Yes Lol. I checked through all my exercises for the 15s and the starting weight is somewhere between 65-75% of my 15RM for all of them.

I realised I had another question
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There was an example on how to determine your 15 rep max (or 10 or 5). It was something like this:

Take a weight you can lift comfortably for 15 rep. Do it for 15 with same speed on every rep.
Then increase the weight about 10% until you have a weight were you cant keep the speed and good form up until the last rep. This is considered your 15RM Max.

So RM-Max is when the weight is too high to be lifted with good form and speed all the way to the last rep according to HST?
My definition is a little different.
My definition is basically that the 15 RM-Max is when you can manage to lift the weight 15 times, and the last 13,14,15 can be slow and with sligthly worse form, they still count.

Did I misunderstand something?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Did I misunderstand something? </div>

You didn't. Its just that HST makes the distinction so as to avoid people from trying complete muscle failure (not our definition of failure) once the form starts dropping and your speed considerably drops, you are at HST failure, that should be your RM.
 
Ok, this is quite close to how I usually train.I always try to stay 1 to 3 reps away from failure, sometimes ending at failure anyway. But now I´m doing HST so failure will be far away except for the last day of a 2 week period, but I wont go to failure then either, just be very close.
 
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