Focusing on lagging chest - pre-exaust or not?

T

tefkiac

New Member
Hi,

I've been doing HST for some time now, and while I see pretty significant changes overall, my chest is always a bit slower to bulk up. I do incline dumbell presses as the main exercise for it, and towards the end of the workout, close grip bench presses during triceps training.
I just started a new cycle on Saturday, and tried to incorporate a set of dumbell flyes (10 reps of RM10 weight) before the dumbell press. Naturally, I now have a sore chest, instead of feeling very little like the earlier cycle.

While I'm sure the greater stimulus is required for my chest growth, should I perform the flyes following the HST progression (starting with very low weights towards RM15 and so progressing from there) or starting at higher weights that exchaust the muscle every time while at the same time keep doing the presses according to HST progression?

In summary: Will a greater load during flyes negate the effects of continuously increased mechanical load in the dumbell presses?

I hope I make sense
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Pre-exhaust is not about increasing strain on the muscle tissue it is about fatigue. (Of course, if you are adding in an exercise for the same muscle group then you benefit from more TUT.) What I would suggest is doing flat bench (to maximise the amount of load you can use for bench) followed by flyes but put a back exercise (or some other body part) between the two chest exercises. Personally, I would do bench first and flyes to finish up but either way around would work.

Flyes are a stretch point exercise and as such are a very good way to add strain and stretch in the pectorals. Progress the load for flyes like you would any other exercise - don't drop the loads too low at the start of the cycle (start with around 75% of your 15RM) and don't worry about using the same loads for a few sessions (it's often difficult to load dbs with the weight you want).

My pecs are naturally almost non-existent but I have found that a combination of weighted dips and flat bench have really helped to build some muscle there. If you haven't tried dips be sure to give them a go as well. You could alternate bench and dips and add flyes each time to finish up.

All the best.  
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Always go from the heaviest most compound exercises to the lighter more isolation exercises within a given bodypart. Try and forget about all that Joe Weider BS.
 
My chest is the most predominant body part (49").

I do both Flat Bench and Dips. Every once in a while I will add Flyes into the mix (time permitting).

Now if I can only get my arms to catch up to the rest of my body.
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As Lol suggested, heavy weighted dips have worked wonders for me. If you are not doing them already, I'd suggest that you use them as your primary chest exercise for a cycle or two and see if they can make a difference. Do not forget to lean forward in order to emphasize chest.
 
I have a problem with dips. Once I had to much load and I developed pain in the muscle insertions in the center of my chest. I do dips for triceps every workout but the chest pain still rears its ugly head when the load increases during the 5s, and I'm not even doing the dips for my pecs (have to lean back a little). Anyone had a similar experience? I really want to do the regular dips. Probably have to lower my weight and begin from the 15s again with emphasis on building up lactate in my pecs...  
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> Flyes are a stretch point exercise and as such are a very good way to add strain and stretch in the pectorals. Progress the load for flyes like you would any other exercise - don't drop the loads too low at the start of the cycle (start with around 75% of your 15RM) and don't worry about using the same loads for a few sessions (it's often difficult to load dbs with the weight you want).</div>

Lol is right. Flies are a good exercise, only I would suggest doing it with cables becuase with dumbells the resistance decreases on the way up due to force vectors, so that at the top there is no strain on the pecs at all. With cable flies there is constant tension
 
I would do two things.

Decrease frequency to my chest to 2 a week training.

Increase volume and work for my chest.

Or look at one of Lyles specialization routines for a cycle.
 
<div>
(colby2152 @ May 13 2008,8:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dips are tough on the shoulders, but even flyes and bench press can be bad as well.</div>
Yet my physiatrist said dips and bench are okay (so long as I keep my elbows in), but flyes can be a danger to the rotator cuff...  
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I suppose most chest exercises are a danger for the Rotator cuff. Thats why bench press is the best becuase if you keep your elbows at 45 degrees to your torso and bring the bar to your lower chest, you put less stress on the delicate shoulder joint and more on the triceps. I think you should just do mre sets for bench relative to everything else. Its better to have a lagging chest than back because the former doesn't cause postural problems
 
We're all built so different. Despite right shoulder problems, I can slam out dips like it's nothing, even going heavy as I did yesterday. No pains. But bench is getting to both of them lately, so Incline DB's are in the offing. I just hate changing all those plates every set and spinning off and on those little collars...then trying to figure out how much weight it is between my american and metric plates. That's more work than the dang set.
 
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(tefkiac @ May 12 2008,3:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hi,

I've been doing HST for some time now, and while I see pretty significant changes overall, my chest is always a bit slower to bulk up. I do incline dumbell presses as the main exercise for it, and towards the end of the workout, close grip bench presses during triceps training.
I just started a new cycle on Saturday, and tried to incorporate a set of dumbell flyes (10 reps of RM10 weight) before the dumbell press. Naturally, I now have a sore chest, instead of feeling very little like the earlier cycle.

While I'm sure the greater stimulus is required for my chest growth, should I perform the flyes following the HST progression (starting with very low weights towards RM15 and so progressing from there) or starting at higher weights that exchaust the muscle every time while at the same time keep doing the presses according to HST progression?

In summary: Will a greater load during flyes negate the effects of continuously increased mechanical load in the dumbell presses?

I hope I make sense
biggrin.gif
</div>
ditch the inclines, do flat bench or decline they are far superior.

personally id do flat dumbell or barbell and id rep out with some dips instead of fly's, fly's are good to a point and can give a great stretch but they arent that great when it comes to hypertrophy imo.
 
Welcome tefkiac

I used to have the same problem, but since using a mixture of flat bench and weighted dips it has since grown fairly well.

By the way I also use a post exahust rather than a pre-exahust technique as O &amp; G pointed out it is better to do the big compounds first then the isolations.

Here's what I normally do, Flat bench or machine bench depending on availability of a suitable partner followed by cable cross-overs, alternated on a different day, weighted dips followed by flyes on a swiss ball, just increases the strectch fairly well.

These of course are just opinions but should give you a starting point!
 
My chest routine is:

Incline DB (for higher reps) or BB for lower reps

Weighted dips

Flat bench flyes


One set of each, regardless of the number of reps.


Flyes are the only isolation exercise I consistently use. They work surprising well for me.
 
If you are unsure about what path to take, try alternating between pre- and post-exaust. Just try to not go for any extreme stretch in the shoulder using heavy weights. As long as you remain injury free you can pack on more mass onto your chest, although it is a long road. Just use HST throghout. He who persists will win in the end!
 
O&amp;G: Joe is right. We've been buggin' you for a couple years for a pic! Hey, I wanted to know, are you slamming those circuit sets near failures or bringing them up from submax? I just can't see the circuit being as viable for hypertrophy as single or double exersizes repeated. Maybe we discussed this before; my question even sounds familiar. Sorry if we did.
 
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