getting discouraged

J

jwbond

New Member
i have been lifting for about 5 years now and have little to show for it. I am 6'1 185lbs 12%bf

i have done 1 cutting hst cycle, which i was happy with. i did 10 days of sd and now I am on the last day of my 15s on my first bulking cycle. i feel like my arms are shrinking and the only weight i am putting on is fat (could be an illusion due to creatine use, started again at begining of cycle). my cycle looks like this:

6 days a week split

day 1:
leg presses
incline bb bench
seated rows
calf raises
bb shoulder press
bb curls
skull crushers

day2:
stiff legged deads
dips
inner back pulldowns
calf raises
db shoulder press
inner preacher bench curls
inner bench


i feel the routine is pretty solid. i am eating about 500cals over maintence and about 1.25g protein/lb

i am disgusted with my gains over the years and am not only getting dicouraged, but getting depressed about it all. it makes me want to just quit lifting or start using "assisstance".

im not sure what i am looking for in this post...just thought id write it down and see what others have to say about it all, thanks guys.
 
If you weren't growing, you should have been eating more. 500 kcals over maintenance means very little if it isn't contributing anything to your goals. EAT MORE!!!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (baby a @ July 08 2005,7:09)]If you weren't growing, you should have been eating more.  500 kcals over maintenance means very little if it isn't contributing anything to your goals.  EAT MORE!!!
Click to expand...
2nd that, start paying attention to the calories u are putting into ur body, make a log for a week to track ur weekly intake. u may be surprised.

Eat, eat, eat.
 
What BabyA said is definatley true in the 15's, they are very taxing metabolically and perhaps you need to up the calories a little more during them then cut back during the 5's.

Also what I noticed with me is bigger increments (15%) with less frequent jumps in weight seemed to help. Although each repeated loading with the same weight reduces (not eliminates) it effectiveness the larger jumps seem to kick up anabolism a bit. I wouldn't go more than 3 or 4 workouts with the same weight before upping it. I would also use only the larger increments in the late 10's and later, the 15's are fine with smaller increments as load isn't the greatest dictator of oxidative stress anyway.

Also perhaps try a 3X week am/pm split, granted increasing frequency is good and I know O&G will disagree with me here ;) , but splitting am/pm can allow more volume and concentration on fewer exercises.
 
Like Dan said, I would increase the volume a little bit.
worship.gif
But I would also keep the 6 day split. Consider adding 1 more set to legs, chest and back each day to bring your weekly set count up to 60.

However, if an AM/PM split is a possibility for you, then I would agree with Dan again that doing 6 workouts over 3 days is better than doing 6 workouts over 6 days. The best, in my opinion, is to do 12 workouts over 6 days. However, AM/PM splits are pretty hard to squeeze into most people's schedules.

And, as has been previously mentioned, working out 6 days per week, especially during the 15's, is very energy consuming. Your caloric "maintenance" level is much higher...perhaps by as much as 500 calories daily higher than if you were doing a normal 3 day split. Therefore, you should shoot to be eating about 1,000 calories over your "old" maintenance level.

At 6'1", 185 pounds and 12% bodyfat, why were you doing a cutting cycle?
 
thanks for all of the input guys...

i think an am/pm split is out of the question, as i am a zombie in the morning and whenever i try to do an am workout i end up half assing it.

i am trying to eat as much clean food as i can, but i am feeling constantly full! the only thing i can think of to do is to throw in some peanut butter. here is a typical day od daily consumption.

breakfast 9am:
2 cups of a generic wheat puff cereal
60g whey
tablespoon of peanut butter
5g creatine

11am:
half a turkey sandwich on wheat (an inch thick of turkey, one slice of cheese)

1pm:
half a roast beef sandwich on wheat, inch thick of meat and a little bit of horse radish sauce

2:30pm
other half of turkey sandwich

4pm
other half of roast beef sandwich

5:30pm preworkout
40g whey w/ water

6
wow.gif
0pm postworkout
60g whey
50g dextrose
5g creatine

7pm dinner
a meal with anywhere from 30-60g carbs, about 50g protein, 10g fat



any tips on getting more calories in? the only thing I can think of is healthy fats.


og, i WAS about 192 at 17%bf in the begining of the cutting cycle. i got down to about 183 at 10% bf at the end of the cycle and decided i couldnt take the deflated look of my arms anymore. my fiance is complaining that i am putting weight on mid-summer so i am trying to keep my gains as lean as possible. i was hoping to get my arms a beefier higher glycogen look again once i went back to bulking and increased the carbs again, but i have had no such luck!

thanks for all the input guys, it's appreciated.
 
JW, if you count the calories up with what you posted you might be surprised. Protein looks okay but I think you are lacking in good fats like Omega 3, 6 and 9's. Udo makes a good oil.

If your fiance's only complaint is your weight, you got it made my man. A friend of mine had a logging accident and had his "prized possession" cut off. He rushed to the Doctor who said that it wasn't a big problem because he could do a transplant. It was $5,000 for a little wagger, $10,000 for an average sized one and $15,000 for a big salami! My friend told the doc that he would consult with his wife via phone and decide. He was sure she would probably go the salami route. When the Doc went back in the room my firend was getting ready to jump to his death out the window. The Doc pulled him back in and asked what had happened to make him so depressed. My friend told him. His wife had said none of the above, she wanted the kitchen remodeled!
sad.gif
 
ill try to include more efa's...what is (caps? cooking oil?) and where can i find Udo's oil?

i am also questioning my routine at this point, i know judging by soarness is not always a good indicator, but i am never soar with hst! i feel a good pump for every muslce group and get within 1-3 reps of failure, but feel completely recouperated by the following day.

i was thinking about adding another set for chest, back and legs like you said og.


perhaps i am being too impatient, i am just dispointed that the deflated look i had from lack of carbs didnt go away. i have always tried to keep as informed as possible about lifting, but i feel like im hitting a wall.
 
Forget pain. Go for the pump. If you are getting a good pump already, you probably do not need to add volume.

I get Udo's oil at Netrition.com but I am sure there are plenty of places to source it from.
 
have any recomendations on how to get more glycogen back in the arms? I feel like they look like toothpicks! i miss the full look they had prior to my cutting cycle.
 
jwbond,

Thanks for this post I am experiencing a similar difficulty with mass building.

I keep reading compound exercises for mass building, squats, deadlift, bench, pull-ups or rows. I haven't exactly grown like crazy using these, but the squats and deadlifts seem to help my appetite and give me a little enthusiam for the rest of the workout. Sort of changes my mood from discouraged to angry.
laugh.gif


Maybe someone smarter than me can comment on this.
 
jwbond,

Forgot, I am getting a blood test to check test levels, as I read someone else on this board did, to see if that could be the reason for marginal results. Not sure how old you are or if that is convenient for you, just thought I would mention it.
 
i think frustration from lack of results is all too common in lifting, i am sure it is the #1 reason for people quiting it all together. I never expected it to be easy, but i put in a lot of effort in and out of the gym, always making sure i am getting the most out of everything.

I found my best gains when i was eating like a horse a couple years back (no suprise). however i have tried it again recently and have have not had the same results as of yet. i felt like i had a good workout today and my spirits are up. i find the toughest part of lifting recently is the frustration of me asking myself questions all the time...should i be eating more? should i do another set? is hst really the anser for what im looking for? etc. i am sure many drive themself nuts with similar questions.

as for low test, i think i am ok as i feel like i have normal energy levels and i am only 24. getting tested has crossed my mind though, since my gains would go through the roof with proper levels (if i am low and still making smalls gains that is).

anyway thanks for all the advice guys, it helps me to stop second guessing myself so much. its just hard not to second guess yourself with all of the bs information that is ouyt there!
 
Don't get discouraged. Even with HST on your side, muscle gains are still all about the long term. Think in terms of six months. Take your measurements, weight, etc, every cycle and watch the trend over the course of the year. I've been doing HST for about seven months now and it felt pretty slow at first, but now looking back on when I started, I'm 20 lbs heavier with not a whole lot more fat than I had back then... and my diet was pretty pathetic for bulking until my last cycle.
By the way, I think a lot of people have considered becoming "assisted" after not getting their gains fast enough, but realize this - even with gear, you won't gain anything unless you have your diet keyed in properly. Gear isn't some magic bullet.

I think you'll be fine. I know what you mean about feeling constantly full. Last cycle, I felt the same way. I had to force feed myself occasionally to get to my calorie goal for that day. I don't remember if you've mentioned this before... but are you tracking your calories in fitday.com or something similar? If not, you should.
 
Here's one thing that I do that has helped me. It's not very common to see that but I feel it really helps.

Yes you need to eat, and quite a lot. Apparently from what I read, it takes in the order of 2500 calories to build 1 lb of muscle. Whether this figure is accurate or not it's not sure, but it is clear that you need a lot of calories.

The problem is to not gain too much fat, or any fat at all in the process, otherwise, you're stuck with the fat, you lose time and probably muscle trying to lose it. And if you're unlucky you get back to square one.

So what I do is that I walk every morning between 1h and 1h30. It burns almost only fat and there's little chance to burn muscle. It enables me to eat a lot without gaining fat.
If you want to give it a try, make sure you STILL eat before you walk, otherwise, you might lose muscle.

The advantage of walking you will have understood is that chances to lose muscle are minimal compared to other forms of cardio, so you can burn quite a lot of fat with it.

Imagine, if you burn 500 calories per day - 1.5h -, that's one lb every week, or 50 lbs a year. Also, it is not really tiring and you can get used to it quickly.

Anyways, that's just an idea if you want to give a real bulk a try. You can do other forms of cardio of course, but the advantage of walking like it burns in fact much more fat because you can do a lot of it without losing muscle, so you can REALLY BULK without risking a fat gain that lead you nowhere.

Just my 0.02..  :)
 
You may want to post some before and after pics...I bet you have made more progress than you think :confused:

We are our worst critique's when we look in the mirror!
 
jwbond,
I understand your frustration. I am quite surprised that after 5 years you haven't made good gains, but perhaps that may just be because you, like me, are your worst critic and that your gains have been so gradual you haven't really noticed.
I also empathize with your constant questioning of your routine and your desire to analyze and tweak every detail. I'm new to HST and weight training in general so I also have done a ridiculous amount of reading and questioning. Just remember this: forget the constant worries and questions and focus on the basic HST principles. When you eat more and continue to progressively load on a consistent basis, is there really much more you can do?
I am nearly done with my first HST cycle and I haven't seen any of these miraculous 15-20 pounds of pure lean gains some speak of (and I've been supplementing with creatine), BUT, I along with many others have noticed that my body is "filling out" and my muscles indeed appear larger and with greater vascularity. I even have added about 5 pounds on the scale. I am proud of this improvement and I cannot wait to see what I look like by next time this year.
I'm a small guy, about 5'6", and if I can put noticeable muscle on with HST I know you can too. I look forward to my training but I have come to not fret over it--I eat more calories and quality foods and follow my HST routine on a consistent basis and I have seen results. I'm with you.
 
I'm not sure how old any of you are, but I recently turned 30. I've been lifting on and off for 15 years. I too have been on the old "frustration treadmill."
One thing I have learned is that progress is slow for those of us who aren't genetically gifted. You have to realize that most lifters don't see gains of 18 lbs in 2 months. But what about 10lbs/year? Heck, even 5lbs/year! In five years you could add 25-50lbs! I've added about 15lbs of lean muscle in the past 5 years, and I was only lifting 2-2.5 years of that 5 years. Add to that the fact that I was mainly using a 4 day per wk split doing like 9-12 sets per bodypart! (and not eating NEAR enough) Hell, that's the way I've been lifting for the past 6 months! (I start my 1st HST cycle tomorrow)

I think that HST is more scientifically sound than the methods I have been using in the past and I hope to add another 20 lbs in the next year and a half. Honestly, I'm more excited than I have ever been, but I don't expect a 15lb gain my first cycle. I only hope to find a routine that maximizes my genetic potential to grow muscle. Almost any decent weght program can help you get stronger and gain muscle (Brian wont even argue that), the question is: Which one provides the absolute BEST results. HST could be it for me, I hope it is.

The point is (yes, there is one)that it takes a good diet with enough calories, progressive weight training, and TIME. Just hang in there and be patient. Best of luck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top