Going back to oldskool

P

Peak_Power

New Member
I've been doing a volume constant steady progression HST program, basically started at 50% of my 5RM, and progressed every 2nd workout, when the weight got too heavy for 15s, I went to 10s, now its getting to heavy for 10s so I'll go to 5s. Its been a bit rough though with the constant weight increase, especially because I'm cutting and not getting enough calories, and doing a lot of cardio. I'm losing my motivation pyschologically, and just when I'm coming up to the big weights and need it the most.

My first cycle I did strictly vanilla, I worked out my 15, 10, 5RMs, progressed my weights back from that, and even had zigzag (which is a bit out of fashion with the vet lifters here). Since then I've been messing around with it, trying new things, maxstim etc, and getting further from the vanilla program. Looking back, the zigzag was what made the cycle enjoyable, I'd lift up to my RM, the last 2 workouts being killer, then the next week the weight and reps would be lighter, and its almost like a vaccation. Overall, the 1st week of each rep range was easy, and the 2nd week was hard. I think the easy week gave me a break physically (preserving my joints), and mentally. I was able to maintain this zigzag cycle for over 10 weeks before I needed to SD, and exceeded my 5RM weights (with 5x3reps).

I have exactly 13 workouts on my card, some 3x p/w, some 2x p/w, but roughly 6 weeks. I'm losing it after 6 weeks on only 2 workouts per week! Though I am cutting so the calorie defifict and cardio are fatiguing me as well.

So for my next program I'm going back to basics, the vanilla HST program, complete with zigzag. I'll prob continue on with the 5s for another 2 weeks, then SD and start again, aiming to make my program more cutting friendly.
 
Good job at realizing how to listen to your body.

When you become burnt out and don't feel like lifting you are doing too much.

Good luck with Vanilla...im sure it will do your body good!
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I was doing a volume constant steady progression like that a while back but while 'bulking', or near maintenance. It wasn't too bad. I think it's the low carbs that are making it brutal to you.
 
I like zig-zag. It is my friend. My best cycles have always had it. When I took it out I didn't progress as well. For me, fatigue accumulates more quickly without it and I definitely lose a bit of my enthusiasm.

Now I am cutting I think I find a bit of zig-zag even more important.
 
I was recently thinking how many posts every day here are about 'tweaking' HST or veterans trying to come up with new ideas to train.
I love new ideas and tweaking....but sometimes enough is enough!
Lol is a good example of a guy who just keeps doing regular ol' HST month after month and is bigger and stronger than many of us who change our routine every other week! (hey, I am guilty of this
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)

Vanilla HST works excellently, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

I plan on sticking to my new powerlifting routine for a long while. Now that I have made this silly speech I have to!
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Why Sci, wasn't HST good enough for you???
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I'm diggin' the way my muscle shape has changed on the 5x5 even though I didn't gain any size, and that's part of the reason I came up with that other program. All I've done is vanilla and linear HST for many cycles, but the results tapered off, probably due to low GH (age). I'm keeping the strength training in with the HST because I have a feeling this will work for me. Won't know until I try it.
BTW, Lol agreed with me there. Zigzag for cutting, and after Lol's post, maybe it's the linear that slowed my progress? Have to look back thru my logs. I just couldn't see why I should do say, 10 reps at 200 lbs of something when I had just finished doing 15 reps of 210. Made sense to me to just keep adding.
 
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(quadancer @ Feb. 23 2007,15:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'm diggin' the way my muscle shape has changed on the 5x5 even though I didn't gain any size, and that's part of the reason I came up with that other program.</div>
Quad please explain?

Thanks
 
I quit max-stim and HST because my goal is no longer hypertrophy...My goal is to be a powerlifter. If I was going for all-around muscle size, I would probably stick with my max-stim training.
 
Joe, What I mean is that for whatever reason all of a sudden I look huge (well after 8 weeks of sudden) but I'm not really more than 1/4 bigger here and there. The strength training actually must have changed the shape of my muscles or the way I carry them or some such. Several people have commented. The weight, however has gone from 201 to hovering around 212, probably most of it in the GUT. I can't really explain it.
 
All your posting about your 5x5 training seems to be positive. You are getting stronger and your muscles are looking better. Keep it up for a few cycles quad. 5x5 and HST are not so different. Both are designed around progressive loading and high-frequency, in fact you could say that 5x5 IS hypertrophy specific. Alot of guys use it to gain muscle mass.
 
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(Peak_Power @ Feb. 22 2007,19:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've been doing a volume constant steady progression HST program, basically started at 50% of my 5RM, and progressed every 2nd workout, when the weight got too heavy for 15s, I went to 10s, now its getting to heavy for 10s so I'll go to 5s. Its been a bit rough though with the constant weight increase, especially because I'm cutting and not getting enough calories, and doing a lot of cardio. I'm losing my motivation pyschologically, and just when I'm coming up to the big weights and need it the most.

My first cycle I did strictly vanilla, I worked out my 15, 10, 5RMs, progressed my weights back from that, and even had zigzag (which is a bit out of fashion with the vet lifters here). Since then I've been messing around with it, trying new things, maxstim etc, and getting further from the vanilla program. Looking back, the zigzag was what made the cycle enjoyable, I'd lift up to my RM, the last 2 workouts being killer, then the next week the weight and reps would be lighter, and its almost like a vaccation. Overall, the 1st week of each rep range was easy, and the 2nd week was hard. I think the easy week gave me a break physically (preserving my joints), and mentally. I was able to maintain this zigzag cycle for over 10 weeks before I needed to SD, and exceeded my 5RM weights (with 5x3reps).

I have exactly 13 workouts on my card, some 3x p/w, some 2x p/w, but roughly 6 weeks. I'm losing it after 6 weeks on only 2 workouts per week! Though I am cutting so the calorie defifict and cardio are fatiguing me as well.

So for my next program I'm going back to basics, the vanilla HST program, complete with zigzag. I'll prob continue on with the 5s for another 2 weeks, then SD and start again, aiming to make my program more cutting friendly.</div>
Been there and done that a million times (well, actually only two times, but it feels like a million). The next time I cut, I think I'm going to devise a program beforehand where I slowly decrease the weights week after week, and see how that goes. In the past I've always thought that you should at least try to keep the weights as heavy as you can, but I'm not sure that's such a good idea anymore. Doing a lot of cardio really zaps your strength, and being low on carbs is even worse.
 
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(quadancer @ Feb. 23 2007,17:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Joe, What I mean is that for whatever reason all of a sudden I look huge (well after 8 weeks of sudden) but I'm not really more than 1/4 bigger here and there. The strength training actually must have changed the shape of my muscles or the way I carry them or some such. Several people have commented. The weight, however has gone from 201 to hovering around 212, probably most of it in the GUT. I can't really explain it.</div>
I got you.

I know exactly what you mean now.

I don't think you can change the shape of the muscle? (thats genetic) but I know what I think you mean...your appearance changes looking as if you are more muscular.

I am in the same boat right now.

I am looking really thick and muscular.

Chest is bigger looking arms are bigger looking but measurements are about the same.

I am fuller...but that being said so is the belly or waist area for me.

If I cut down i look flat as shi-t.

But thats what I have to do to have abs!

I don't know I may just stay fuller this year...???
 
I'm very interested in Sci's progress because we are both after a similar end result but I'm approaching it from a different angle. I'm going to stick with hypertrophy oriented training for a fair while and then focus more on strength when my gains slow right down. I still think I can gain a fair bit of size so I'm focussing on that. I also really like the way a basic HST cycle is set up to incorporate some endurance and some strength type training but I can appreciate why this is not best for maximal strength gains.

Keep that log going Sci!
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Lol - that's exactly what happened to me; started losing gains and switched to 5x5 intermediate and got the results above. One thought though, my chest being still 44-1/2&quot;, but I had stopped doing lat exersize...so I may have gained chest and lost lats, keeping the same measure.
Have you seen my new HST proposed program? Sci is the only one talking with me on it so far. I'm waiting for inspiration and the end of this cycle to decide what to do. I'm not so hung up on trying my idea that I have to do it now if 5x5 will give me more. I really like the 5x5, except worry a bit about general conditioning for the other muscles.
 
Quad I liked your new program.

There nothing wrong with jumping out of the box for a couple of weeks to get a break of boredom.

This game is physcological just as much as having the perfect program.

So if doing something different for a month or two refreshes your energy and you get pumped up even more.

Then go on 5x5 or hst again.

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(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 24 2007,08:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Quad I liked your new program.

There nothing wrong with jumping out of the box for a couple of weeks to get a break of boredom.

This game is physcological just as much as having the perfect program.

So if doing something different for a month or two refreshes your energy and you get pumped up even more.

Then go on 5x5 or hst again.

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</div>
yeah i jumped back to a standard split but incorperating progressive load,it has been working well,ive just found that i can put more intensity into each exercise,but thats just me.

i think trying something different once in a while breaks the monotony and can put new life into your workouts.
 
Talk about refreshing! I thought I was stalled out at my 8th deadlift workout, but still tried a PB of 405x5...the last rep stalled halfway or less, but since I wanted a full set with all 8 plates on the bar...I dug DEEEEEEEP, like never before and got it!
Took 15 minutes to slow my breathing! Sheesh!
I try to see PB's as a 'break' in monotony, so strength training for the first time has really been exciting. The lower part of my log has a lot of red circles around sets, indicating new strengths.
The back of my mind is considering that if I try another HST cycle or 10x3, 3x3, or some conditioning factors, my next 5x5 might REALLY rock! On the other hand, using the periodization factor and staying with 5x5 might also be the ticket. I feel like a kid in a candy store.
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I'm having to accept that I may be nearing the advanced stage, regardless of lack of gains in size, since I can't keep going linear much longer. I can dig that I guess, since hitting my deadlift goal #1...so maybe I'm officially no longer in the small fry club...maybe the old fry club now...
 
Anything for too long is probabley not a good thing. IMO

You don't nessicarily have to switch routines or workouts but just change something.

For me that was dropping from 36 reps HST style to 15 to 20 reps.

Strenght has gotten lots better and I am excited to be in the gym.

For others who are on a low volume program of 15 to 20 reps...maybe they should go for medium weight and higher volume for a month or two.

I am found over the years that its good to train 2 or 3 times a year the exact opposite of how you normally train.

Normally that looks like this.

Powerlifters should bodybuild 2 or 3 times a year for fun.

Or Bodybuilders should powerlift 2 or 3 times.

Unless of course you are a professional athelete..its should always be about fun and health, IMO
 
Exactly Joe, you should change your program to better suit your needs/goals, but not just for the sake of it, or worse &quot;to confuse your muscles&quot;.

You should always do a program which is tailored for your specific needs, then stick with that until your goals change.
 
Sci...

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I love new ideas and tweaking....but sometimes enough is enough!</div>

Can agree with this to an extent.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Lol is a good example of a guy who just keeps doing regular ol' HST month after month and is bigger and stronger than many of us who change our routine every other week! (hey, I am guilty of this )</div>

Agreed, kinda why I started the Simplify and Win thread, I always end up tweaking a little but have stayed on the simple and heavy for at least the whole of last year and it is paying off, I'm looking thicker, and my upper body is showing it, I get comments, the best one being my Pastor, saying...man whats happening to yah, you looking thick! By the way I have convinced him to get on the HST wagon too as he asked me for a program last year.

Bottom line...Simple and Heavy rocks!
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