Has my 1st week been a waste??

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by ian, Mar 1, 2005.

  1. ian

    ian New Member

    I started doin the HST 15s last week using the following routine (which I found on the main site!!! ).After reading everyone elses threads I realised that most people used half the exercises so I was wondering if this workout was rubbish??? (It was from the main site tho!!! )

    SQUATS  2sets
    STIFF LEG DEADLIFTS  2sets
    INC BENCH  2sets
    DIPS  1sets
    PULLDOWN  2sets
    ROWS  2sets
    SHRUGS  1set
    SHOULDER PRESS  1set
    SIDE RAISES  1set
    REAR DELTS  1set
    DB CURLS  2sets
    TRI EXTENSIONS  2sets
    CALF RAISES  2sets
    ABS 2sets

    Just incase anyone wants to be a superstar and help me,
    Ive been training using the one bodypart per day method (for years) and I normally just do four sets for 4/5different exercises so heavy I cant move for days.
    I cant get to the gym twice a day, and although i dont mind how many days i go, i dont wana go just to do 2sets of something (it takes me an hour to get there).
    Any ideas???
     
  2. MicroBerto

    MicroBerto New Member

    That's pretty much exactly what I just started - basically taken from the base workout plan on the main site. I see no problems with it.

    However, if you're really starting to hurt during each week 2, then you maybe only need to do 1 set (2 sets of incline bench at your 15 rep max are gonna be PAINFUL).

    1 set is really all it takes for some people. Find out what is good for you though. For me, 2 sets on the big stuff during each microcycle's first week, and then 1 set for everything (plus warmups on the big stuff) for each microcycle's second week works best for me.

    Stick with it and adjust if you get too tired or are taking too long.
     
  3. ian

    ian New Member

    Nahhh uv got me confused here.....

    Before I started this HST I trained with the strongest people from miles around. We just did super heavy and more and more sets every week. Therefore im finding HST very easy, more like a cardio workout. Thats why I was hoping someone would tell me if its the routines fault or im meant to feel like this???
     
  4. Kate

    Kate New Member

    15's suck a lot of air, especially here in the mile high city. [​IMG] Remember that the fifteens are about preparing the joints for heavier weights AND about allowing a lot of incremental weight increases.

    Bottom line: It is not your perceived effort or amount of soreness that will determine your muscle growth. That comes from well timed, properly chosen incremental increases in resistence.

    First time through is a real Mother! ;)

    Kate
     
  5. Dood

    Dood New Member

    The routine is fine, though I'd do 2 sets of dips and one set of inc. bench, unless you want to hit your upper pecs more than the lower.
    Yeah, the first week of 15's can seem like you're doing almost nothing, but it helps if you slow the reps down some and use very strict form. The truth is that if you've been training with heavy weights in the 5RM range for years, the first week of 15's just won't make you feel anything, unless you've SD'd for more than 2 weeks. Just think of it as setting up your body for the future, you're conditioning your joints and tendons for your 5RM workouts later on.
     
  6. ian

    ian New Member

    Thanks Kate i appreciate the response, however after reading the other posts I no it aint supposed to hurt.

    Id love to know what you think of the routine tho, as I say its just off the site. The only reason I said about the 15s being easy was that I need to know whether this routine is for nubies or what. I just wanted to make the point that im an experienced bodybuilder and am used to big routines (in length and weight) so is this routine too hard/too easy/just right???
     
  7. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Ian

    My two cents for whatever they are worth:

    HST is totally different from what you used to do, so you are doing just fine, during the 15's you can get frustated but stick with it :confused: , it is well worth it.

    To fiddle with the routine, I'd [​IMG] say:

    Alternate squats and deadlifts, do not do them on the same day! For shoulders alternate the presses with the lateral and rear raises, that way you can increase sets if you want to. [​IMG]

    Bench and dips too, splitting them makes them more effective [​IMG] , think of it as the goal of getting to 5's and negs, then you will be pushing nice and heavy and you will see the wisdom of it all. [​IMG]

    I can imagine th frustration of travelling one hour to get to the gym, and then feeling like you did not do your day's worth of pushing, but is not so, after eight weeks let us all know what you are getting from the HST program, and you will so start tweeking things to accomodate your way of training [​IMG]

    Hang in there mate!

    Ciao

    Fausto
     
  8. ian

    ian New Member

    Just wana let you all know that im an idiot and i thought i was far more nuts than i am.

    Frankly im disappointed how stupid i was.

    Iv done nout but moan about how easy the 15s were until today when i did the 2nd to last set of my 15s. I was nearly ill half way through, and had to sit down for an hour after it as my routines a tad on the long side, im gona be dead on Friday. Soz for the moaning. Gona workout the changes to my routine now so i can cope with the heavy 10s and 5s.

    Thanks guys
     
  9. ian

    ian New Member

    Right gona do this now....
    4days a week Mon, Tue,Thur,Fri. Alternatin between....

    1/
    Squats
    Inc bench
    Pulldown (wide and narrow)
    Shoulder Press
    DB curls
    Tri extensions
    Calfs standing

    And

    2/
    SLDL
    Dips
    Rows
    Side and rear Delts
    Bb curls
    Skull crushers
    Calfs seated


    I avnt gota clue on sets, was just gona do 2 sets 4 each???
    Any ideas would be welcome!!!
     
  10. Kate

    Kate New Member

    Hi, Ian! The new routine looks good to me. Adding an extra day makes sense. I wonder... since you are used to high volume and intensity, you might want to add a third set of compounds in as soon as you start your ten's.

    In general, it is best for Noobies to try to stick pretty close to the basic program because it really take a few times through to have enough experience to do some decent "tweaking".

    At the same time it makes sense to reproduce the volume that you are used to. In your last program, sounds like you were doing 16 to 20 work sets, so you could add an extra set of the big motions without overdoing it, I think.

    You might even consider adding in the third set of compounds and dropping to one set of isolation exercises, except for those pet parts that need some catching up.

    Looks good!
    Kate
     
  11. ian

    ian New Member

    When u say add another set of compounds eg???

    To me nearly all of the above exercises are compund.
    Except the rear and side delts and bis and tris, even then Im not sure i could do without these as theyv been the bread and butter of every thing iv done for years and im already sacrificing a lot just doing HST, dont think I could cope without doing arms (and i wana work on my shoulders).

    When you say compound which exercises do u mean? (i know what compound exercises r, just wana know what ones ud use)

    I was gona do deadlifts insteada SLDL, but then id b neglectn hammys and deadys and squats is a lot every other day, they may prohibit each others progress
     
  12. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    That was a good one [​IMG] , there is nothing like the University of life to tech us some lessons :D

    Although I tell it is nothing unusual to get guys like you moaning about all kinds of things specially so little sets [​IMG] , not enough volume iada,iada, we are used to it, because usually that is the reaction they get once they do the 15's properly, they have this extreme tendency to make you wanna puke [​IMG]

    Well, surely now you know why one to two sets are recommended, so I'd say stick to two for the big ones (counpounds) until the 5's then drop to one if you feel it is too much. [​IMG]

    The other side of the stick is that HST is not a volume routine, and is a whole body routine in one workout which is not what most people are used to, but it works that is for sure! [​IMG]

    I don't exactly agree with Kate about the 4 days, but maybe initially it is fine, this could influence your recuperation mode and affect gains negatively [​IMG]

    Now, yes, your workout looks right [​IMG] , aim at not spending more than one hour at the gym, including warmup which can easily be done with each exercise providing you with the much wanted extra set [​IMG]

    My two cents dude, happy HST'ying.

    Fausto
     
  13. Dood

    Dood New Member

    When you are doing deadlifts, chins, pulldowns, etc, you are working your bis HARD, just as you work your tris when you do bench and dips. That's why you can get by with just one set for isolation movements like curls and triceps extentions.
    I know it seems kind of strange until you think about it, but what puts more strain on your biceps in a stretched position than deadlifting a few hundred pounds?
     
  14. Kate

    Kate New Member

    [​IMG] I love deadlifts!

    Ian, compound motions involve moving more than one joint. When you perform a chest press, both your elbows and your shoulders are moving through a range of motion. For a fly on the other hand, most of the motion occurs at the shoulder.

    Since they involve two or more joints, compound motions also load a larger number of muscles. We tend to focus on the prime mover (in this case pec major) and don't realize just how hard other muscles are working to assist. Ever have your triceps sting or your delts ache after a nice heavy set of presses?

    Isolation moves involve motion at one joint. As such they allow us to focus on a particular muscle or muscle group. At the same time, no matter how beautifully I do Scott curls, biceps are still getting an assist from other elbow flexors. It is a matter of degree really.

    If you enjoy big lifts and multiple sets, you may get better enjoyment out of your program by putting more emphasis on the big lifts. An easy way to do this is to add additional sets as the reps come down.

    There's nothing wrong with doing Scott curls if you like them and feel your biceps need additional attention. What Dood and I are saying is that you don't need to curl to grow big biceps.

    So I am saying 3 sets of:
    Squats
    Inc bench
    Pulldown (wide and narrow)
    SLDL
    Dips
    Rows
    and maybe, depending on the size and condition of my shoulders, the shoulder presses.

    Then one set of the isolation exercises, to keep things moving. I have done this and for me it works well [​IMG]

    Fausto! Good to "see" you again. :D You may be right about the fourth day. Certainly I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. But Ian seems to have been working at a pretty high intensity, and may need the extra day too keep him interested ;)

    It is more of a stress on the nervous system, so he should definitely keep an eye out for signs of overtraining.

    Did that make sense? [​IMG] I think I'll go get some more coffee...

    Happy hypertrophy!
    Kate
     
  15. ian

    ian New Member

    Noooooooooo guys dont confuse me for a retard [​IMG]

    I know what compound and isolation movements are. All im sayn is after years of training 'normaly' im making so many sacrifices to my usual ways of thinkin it would be hard for me to give up bi and tri isolation movements altogether. I know that they do get worked during major compound movements, but in my opinion they dont get worked fully. I mean how many pro bbs dont work arms???

    Anyone nice one for the advice, any more comments an ideas r welcome
     
  16. Kate

    Kate New Member

    :D Ian! I didn't mean to be insulting... sorry! I have a tendency to lecture in general for anyone who might use the info.

    Don't get into the over thinking trap and definitely don't focus so much on what you aren't doing.

    If you follow the basic plan and you eat properly, HST should work for you. I was trying to make your plan a little more familiar and comfortable for you, which could make it better for you, but certainly isn't neccessary.

    How many pro's don't train arms? However many have arms large enough in proportion to the rest of their physique and have other things they'd prefer to work on. You don't think those routines in the glossy mags are really what the big guys are really doing, do ya? [​IMG] What's printed in the muscle mags is what the editors think will sell.

    If you're still confused, stick with the basic HST program. Your exercise selection looks great. Sets and rest and all the other stuff is fine tuning, and you can fuss with that later.

    Lift, eat, sleep and grow!
    Kate
     
  17. MicroBerto

    MicroBerto New Member

    Told you those 15s are crazy. Just had day 3, my legs are very sore. Can't wait for the DOMS 2 days from now (I've been getting delayed soreness lately).

    Ian - if HST doesn't work for you, it's almost definitely due to your diet. I've been saying in other threads, I love to log my foods into http://www.fitday.com -- EVERY single thing i eat goes in there. It's amazing to see that when i'm not monitoring it, my protein is never good enough.
     
  18. ian

    ian New Member

    Of course the stuff they publish in mags is true, you dont think theyd let em publish lies do ya  :D
    Do me a favour micro, throw one of ur days diet on here, just so I can compare (and dont cheat and addan extra 10meals to make me feel bad :D  )
     
  19. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Katie

    Nice to "see" you too Katie, I've been a bad boy lately, haven't not yet re-started and filling guilty as hell, my job with all the FDA's, MCC's and MHRA inspections and the work leading to those is getting to me, I get home totally "pooped" if you know what I mean, but hey...I'm a soldier I'll convince myself to get over it and get going [​IMG] , after all what could feel better than DOMS? We BB'ers are one crazy lot aren't we [​IMG] ?

    Anyway the reason why I am warning Ian is that HST is rather different than what he's been used to and it maybe fine during the light weight sessions, but as soon as he hits the 5's and negs, it'll probably become a little on the much side if you know what I mean :) .

    And for Ian, your program now looks good, isolation exercises I feel must be there but the emphasis should be on the compounds as they are the ones producing most hypertrophy, choosing not to do isolations is something I haven't yet tried, maybe because I have the same "disease" as most of us, it is a question of faith really :confused:

    Keep it up dude, and hey... don't forget to tell us how you are gaining at the end of the cycle, that is really what we are interested in after giving you advice, also to check that our advice was in the right direction  :D

    Ciao

    Fausto
     

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