High Frequency Training - Implementations?

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Mojo77, Aug 26, 2015.

  1. Mojo77

    Mojo77 Member

    Lately, I'm getting more and more interested in high frequency training. And while I will stick with my current 3 times a week full body program for quite some time, I believe that increasing training frequency is the way forward as a lifter becomes more advanced.

    Of course, doing the exact same full body workout 5 days a week instead of 3, would not enable me to recover adequately.
    So, while looking into HFT, and ways on how to implement it, I stumbled upon this article by Christian Thibaudeau:
    https://www.t-nation.com/workouts/russian-strength-skill-the-workouts

    I know some of you, such as @Old and Grey and @mickc1965 are using HFT-principles in their workouts.

    My questions would be:

    1) what do you think of the article and how it is implemented? (rest is not mentionned but I believe it is short)
    2) is focussing on strength in hft the best approach hypertrophy-wise?
    3) what does your own program using hft looks like? (exercises, sets, reps, rest etc.)
     
  2. Mojo77

    Mojo77 Member

    No opinions?

    My own idea of a practical implementation would be to stay as close to my current HST DUP myo routine as possible, with greatly reduced exercise selection in the lines of this:

    Back Squat
    Rack Pull (no myo, just single set)
    Bench Press
    Seated Cable Row
    Lat pull down

    done as
    day 1 - 5 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 with a weight that stil does not require a specific warm up
    day 2 - 15 single set
    day 3 - 10 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2

    repeat days 4 - 5 - 6 rest the 7th day. weekly weight increments of 2,5% (I think 5% could be too much)

    I feel in such a set up it would not be needed to include any direct shoulder work as both the front and the rear delt are already plenty hit by the pressing and rowing. Maybe only add side raises twice or three times a week

    This would make it true full body done daily which could be done in 25 minutes.

    I wonder if this would be too much, that should be tested when the time comes and also if this would result in a good symmetry and overall development.

    It could be split up as well in only three exercises kind of like

    Squat
    bench
    Row

    and alternated with

    Rack Pull/Deadlift
    lat pull down/chin up
    landmine press (since no overhead pressing can be done)

    Which could probably be done in around 15 minutes. So routine A and B could be alternated day 1 through day 6 doing A B A - B A B

    Which routine would be better?
     
  3. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    @Mojo77

    Looks pretty good to me, I would stick with the first proposal, any reason why you have chosen rack pulls over deadlift in that routine?

    What % of each rep max will you be starting at as you mentioned about choosing a weight that does not require a specific warm up, how will you warm up assuming that you're not starting @50% or lower than your rep max for each rep range.
     
  4. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Myo reps are even more appropriate for 15's than 5's. The reason is simply that you get full muscle activation even on the first rep of 5's but not until the 10th or so rep on the 15's. As for the article, not for me. I stay away from singles as they put too much strain on my old joints.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
  5. Mojo77

    Mojo77 Member

    Well, another option could be to do the exact same workout as today, just spread out over 6 instead of 3 days, like this,

    Routine A
    Squat
    Bench
    Row
    Front squat shrug
    Tricep extensions

    Routine B
    Rack pull
    Calve raises
    Landmine press
    Lat pull down
    Ez curls

    Still as above, done with 5, 10, 15 myo style. This would take a good 25 minutes.

    I probably do this tonight for practical reasons as I Will be home late and an hour workout before bed will be too long.

    I like the shorter routine the most but at 15 minutes a day and actually less volume, would this be enough volume or should you do more myo sets or switch to regular sets?

    I dont work with percentages, I have tested my Rm 5, 10,15 once and base myself on that increasing 5% every training. After sd, I reset to a weight 4 or 5 weeks back. This is usually pretty good so I kinda go by feel. I kinda already use hft principles in staying mostly 3 or 4 reps away from failure. Stopping when sensing real fatigue and noticeably slower reps.

    For the article, he does singles but at 85% he is doing singles with the 5rm right? That should be pretty light intensity. I like the idea, but is it enough volume and intensity to keep growing muscle?
     
  6. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    [QUOTE="Mojo77, post: 251783, member:
    For the article, he does singles but at 85% he is doing singles with the 5rm right? That should be pretty light intensity. I like the idea, but is it enough volume and intensity to keep growing muscle?[/QUOTE]

    It is 85% of the 1 RM.

    With your w/o, I would use myo reps with the 10's also and 2 sets of 5's. Exercise selection is a personal choice. Sticking to core basic lifts is always a good way to go.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
  7. Mojo77

    Mojo77 Member

    I have been testing this daily routine for convenience reasons. Every workout is done in 30 minutes tops and I have to say it is really time convenient and I like this. However, I am actually doing less volume than before and that bothers me, should it?

    Monday: workout A1

    Squat 1*5+ 1 + 1 + 1 + 1
    Bench ditto
    Row ditto
    Dip singles starting at 2 adding 1 each training

    Tuesday: workout A2

    Rack pull 1*5
    Lat pull down 1*5 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1
    Landmine press ditto
    Chin up negative singles starting at 2 adding 1 each training

    Wednesday: workout B all 1*15

    Squat
    Bench
    Row
    Front squat shrug
    Lat pull down
    Landmine press
    Calve raises

    Thursday: off

    Friday: workout C1

    Squat 1*10 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2
    Bench ditto
    Row ditto
    Front Squat shrugs ditto
    Triceps extensions ditto

    Saturday: workout C2

    Rack pull 1*10
    Calve raises 1*10 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2
    Landmine press ditto
    Lat pull down

    Sunday: off
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  8. Mojo77

    Mojo77 Member

    Observations:
    -) volume is way lower : before every workout was like workout B with tricep extensions and curls done for 5's, 10's and AMRAP. is this an issue?
    -) intensity is practically left the same, except no more AMRAP
    -) almost no direct arm work, and thus no arm pumps, and this for a a kid with proportionally thin arms: bad idea?
    -) after wednesday an off-day was really needed, despite low volume, I felt kinda tired after three days in a row training
    -) calories needed a bump up, gaining again, reduced girth by 1 cm after 1 week already while gaining 0,5kg, amazing!

    While there are certainly benefits this still has me puzzled whether this is the way to go in the long run. The less volume part actually messes with me at this point. Maybe this should be bumped up after the getting used to?

    Maybe also, I should start some kind of log ...
     
  9. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    @Mojo77, you ask if your volume is too low but then you go on to say that the off day on Wednesday was really needed despite low volume, which in itself suggests that the volume is not too low at this point in time.
     
    adpowah likes this.
  10. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    Getting rid of AMRAP seems crazy to me.

    You're not an especially advanced lifter - and that's fine - but because of that, I would certainly advocate some measure of quantifiable RPE into your program, even if AMRAP is all you have.

    Additionally, I echo Mick's thoughts.
     
  11. Mojo77

    Mojo77 Member

    Intensity in my workouts is probably rather too high than too low.
    Apparently, as I see in articles as the above and in this thread here http://thinkmuscle.com/community/threads/ultra-high-frequency-body-part-specialization.42208/ high frequency, goes hand in hand with both low volume and low intensity. Christian Thibeadeau adviocates doing singles with the 5rm and sets of 3 with something like the 10rm. That is really low intensity to me. He also does only 2 exercises a workout, that is really low volume. I still do 4 exercises a workout and while still adding 5% to the bar each training, I do a set of 5 with the actual 5rm over time.

    Doing this little sounds counterproductive compared to the all around praised bro split doing 5 exercises for 10 sets an exercise on a single body part with negatives and forced reps and what not to induce muscle growth in advanced trainees while routines described above advocate the exact opposite doing daily easy pieces to induce growth in the same advanced trainees with very submaximal weights.

    I do not consider myself advanced at all. I know I am a novice. The bottom question really is... which would be better in the long run for me. The first routine full body done 3 times a week or the last abbreviated routine scattered out over 5 days? Practically it is the last, for time convenience but for optimal results, I really don't know, that is the question.
     
  12. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    IMO the same weekly volume spread over 5 days is better than 3 days
     
  13. Shrödinger

    Shrödinger New Member

    Old and Grey likes this.

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