How could i simplify this program

W

White Menace

New Member
Squat
Deadlift
Shoulder Press
Cable Chest Dip
Barbell Row
Chinup
Rear Delt Fly
Lateral Raise
Upright row
Cable Lateral raise
Calf Raise
Incline Bench
Rotating curls
Tricep Pushdowns

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Basically I Want to Focus on shoulders,Get as wide as possible, while building up everyhting else, im and intermedite lifter
-Unfortunately I can't do dips due to sternum problems.
any ideas?
I feel as if im trying to isloate everybody part, whilst im just trying to bring shoulders and back and arms are lagging.
help will be appreciated.
Thanks
on a side note, for the past 3+ weeks i have been doing full body workouts everyday and have seen massive strength gains (ei. deadlift-120kgx1 to 130kgx7 in 2 weeks) but of course doing heavy weights each day will strain your CNS to much, whihc is the reason im looking into this)
and some decent sizse gains (arms +1cm, shoulders +1cm in 2 weeks)
 
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I assume this is 3x per week?

Flat Bench
Incline Bench

Chins
Rows

Deadlifts
Squats


That's all you need.

Do 2 sets for each of deadlifts and squats. For the pairs of chest/back exercises, do either 2 sets each or alternate 2&1, 1&2 from one workout to the next.

If you want +1 exercise, add Upright Rows, one set.
 
Day A
Squat
Shoulder Press
Chest Dips
Barbell Row
Stiff Leg Deadlift
Pull ups
Roatating Curls

Day B
Deadlift
Upright Row
Incline Bench
Chin ups

No point in doing Isolation remember to change biceps curls around with other curls. I assume you doing shoulder press seated because you don't want to stand up after doing squats. Do calf rasies whenever you workout. Triceps are worked with bench and shoulder press. Chin ups are done on the same day as deadlifts because I feel that your chin ups might be affected by Barbell rows. Hope it hepls

Thanks
Aamar
 
Stemad said:
I agree with Alex.. But why flat+incline? Wouldn't be better Overhead+flat? Or overhead+dips?
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Either of those is an option. I suggest Flat + Incline because it would allow White Menace to figure out which pressing option he prefers moving forward (to future cycles). I also think that BB Incline, properly done at ~30degrees above floor parallel//flat is more or less the best exercise for the anterior deltoid.

Overhead + anything would be fine too.

Dips - hard to say without knowing the experienced of the poster.
 
AlexAustralia said:
Either of those is an option. I suggest Flat + Incline because it would allow White Menace to figure out which pressing option he prefers moving forward (to future cycles). I also think that BB Incline, properly done at ~30degrees above floor parallel//flat is more or less the best exercise for the anterior deltoid.

Overhead + anything would be fine too.

Dips - hard to say without knowing the experienced of the poster.
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Makes sense, thanks for the clarification!
 
Incline Bench, Upright Rows and close grip chins/rows are the best way I know how to build shoulders (the latter working the posterior side of course).
 
AlexAustralia said:
Incline Bench, Upright Rows and close grip chins/rows are the best way I know how to build shoulders (the latter working the posterior side of course).
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AlexAustralia again.
i know what your getting at, maybe i could add a set of lat raises and facepulls.
ill also be doing sprints when i find out the date of my physical assessment for the air force.
anyways off to the gym now.
 
There's nothing wrong with isolation exercises and they build the target muscle perfectly fine. You can't build a proportionate physique with out them. If you actually want to look good AND big then add in isos where needed. All you guys preaching minimalist routines please post up pics of yourselves. I took that advice and have glaring symmetry issues thanks to it (shoulders, arms, calves all undersized/ core too thick thanks to heavy deads and squats). You can also download that Mehdi 5x5 crap or look up the guys on Riptoes 5x5 and see how proportionate they look. Of course they aren't interested in aesthetics so they only do minimalist work on the basics. Even powerlifters use isos to improve the big 3.

My advice to OP is to follow Bryan's example routine as laid out on the main site as a bare minimum (8-9 exercises with most being isolations I might add!). If you want to prioritize shoulders then do more volume for them. It's that simple.
 
Yes, only use isolations. Compounds are a waste of time. They will make you look bad and they shrink your penis.
 
White Menace said:
Squat
Deadlift
Shoulder Press
Cable Chest Dip
Barbell Row
Chinup
Rear Delt Fly
Lateral Raise
Upright row
Cable Lateral raise
Calf Raise
Incline Bench
Rotating curls
Tricep Pushdowns

<tbody>
</tbody>
Basically I Want to Focus on shoulders,Get as wide as possible, while building up everyhting else, im and intermedite lifter
-Unfortunately I can't do dips due to sternum problems.
any ideas?
I feel as if im trying to isloate everybody part, whilst im just trying to bring shoulders and back and arms are lagging.
help will be appreciated.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Incline Bench OR Shoulder Press, not both.

Don't squat and deadlift in the same workout, too hard. Squats and Deads alternating, or squat twice and deadlift once/week.

For medial deltoids, pick ONE EXERCISE, not three, so don't do lateral raise, upright row and cable lateral raise, as they are all essentially the same exercise! Just pick one.
 
FistOfFury said:
There's nothing right with isolation exercises and they can't build the target muscle at all.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.


On a more sincere note, I don't remember ever gaining size from an isolation exercise beyond 'newbie' gains.

And furthermore, what are these mythical 'core' muscles every PT since 1995 has been raving about? Do people know there's no invisible set of skeletal muscles running through the middle of out torsos? There are spinal erectors, obliques, abdominals. There's pectoral and latismus dorsi, lower, middle, upper trapezius ... but there's no "core" muscles.

Shoulders are definitely not 'smaller' muscles and anything you're doing for shoulders that isn't a straight-arm raise is a compound exercise, even "Arnold's".

Sci said:
Incline Bench OR Shoulder Press, not both.

Don't squat and deadlift in the same workout, too hard. Squats and Deads alternating, or squat twice and deadlift once/week.

For medial deltoids, pick ONE EXERCISE, not three, so don't do lateral raise, upright row and cable lateral raise, as they are all essentially the same exercise! Just pick one.
Click to expand...

I'm actually ok w/ppl doing deadlifts and squats before they get especially heavy. At loads sub ~100kg, they're unlikely to put too much strain on the CNS at that stage. Maybe it's more like 90kg for some, maybe more like 110 or 120kg (i.e. it needn't be 100kg exactly just because it's 'OMG 100'). Back on track: he should be 'ok' for now, alternating them between workouts is fine though. SLDL's aren't equivalent to actual deads though.

Definitely agree w/one exercise for medial delts-upper traps though.
 
Perhaps we should define isolation and compound just in case people don't know?

An isolation exercise involves only one joint whereas a compound uses multiple joints. I.e. curl uses only the elbow joint, unless you cheat. Military press involves both the elbow and shoulder joints.

What you think is an isolation may not be isolation.
 
Totentanz said:
Perhaps we should define isolation and compound just in case people don't know?

An isolation exercise involves only one joint whereas a compound uses multiple joints. I.e. curl uses only the elbow joint, unless you cheat. Military press involves both the elbow and shoulder joints.

What you think is an isolation may not be isolation.
Click to expand...

Random anecdote - I once had some random kid explain to me that bicep curls were actually compounds because of elbow + wrist ... about 5minutes later I was asked by the staff to stop laughing so loudly ...
 
FistOfFury said:
There's nothing wrong with isolation exercises and they build the target muscle perfectly fine. You can't build a proportionate physique with out them. If you actually want to look good AND big then add in isos where needed. All you guys preaching minimalist routines please post up pics of yourselves. I took that advice and have glaring symmetry issues thanks to it (shoulders, arms, calves all undersized/ core too thick thanks to heavy deads and squats). You can also download that Mehdi 5x5 crap or look up the guys on Riptoes 5x5 and see how proportionate they look. Of course they aren't interested in aesthetics so they only do minimalist work on the basics. Even powerlifters use isos to improve the big 3.

My advice to OP is to follow Bryan's example routine as laid out on the main site as a bare minimum (8-9 exercises with most being isolations I might add!). If you want to prioritize shoulders then do more volume for them. It's that simple.
Click to expand...
srs, this is probably the only response in which i understand fully.
Aesthetics is 100% about proportions so why neglect that?
if your interested in strenght, do the main compounds, but doesnt mean you cant neglect proportions.
 
Totentanz said:
Yes, only use isolations. Compounds are a waste of time. They will make you look bad and they shrink your penis.
Click to expand...

Seriously? I just went back to re-read my post again because I couldn't remember saying anything about ONLY using isolations (besides pointing out Bryan's own example is riddled with them).
 
The issue that most of us have with the statement you've quoted is that we find it to be factually inaccurate.

The idea that biceps grow more as the result of doing a 30kg DB curl compared to a 140kg BB Row or heavy chin up is amusing, and not really born out in the physiques of non-chemically assisted lifters. The reason most powerlifters don't looks shredded like a Hugh Jackman etc is because they don't really care to do the fat-cutting. Doesn't change the massive muscles underneath.

Some do: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=123648281&page=1
 
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