HST 1st timer

S

Sarge

New Member
Hey all, I'm on numerous other boards and have a detailed log on elite...

AndaLite has been a great help so far there, but I was recommended to come to the source for more help.

I can use all the help I can get, lol.

To the point:

I was going through my 15 rep lifts last night and remember reading that if one should feel the deep muscle burn < 15 reps that they may stop.

Well on tricep press downs is when i realized this and ended up stopping at 40 reps (just began to feel the burn).

I'm familiar with progressive training a la Bill Starr's 5x5 (for reference).

And the first few weeks should be easy usually, so i just need some clarification on this "deep burn" rep "issue."

And if you guys wouldn't mind I'd be happy to copy my training from my home board to here if you want to follow along and help out that'd be great
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Welcome Sarge

Don't quite get what you trying to ask,but maybe you should post your program and well take it from there!

The burn can occuir during 15's and indicates deep flushing of lactic acid which is good for both the muscle tissue and the joints in preparation for the heavier loads.

We'll wait for your program.
 
ok, here's my first day training:

2 week deload complete

<span style='color:DarkRed'><span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>HST</span></span>
Session 1 (S1)
Monday
3.5.2007
~5:30pm-6:00pm

It felt awesome to be lifting again. I was sky high post workout, endorphins kick ass... i think i yapped someones ear off after, LOL.. opps

<span style='color:DarkRed'>I will be typing total poundage for lifts, so if it's dumbells divide by 2 to find what I used in each hand. If I did a warm up set, it will be in grey following my scheduled 15 rep set.</span>

DB Bench: 100x15 <span style='color:SlateGray'>70x15</span>
BB Row: 115x15 <span style='color:SlateGray'>45x15</span>
* felt a bit winded by here so stopped rushing the sets.
RomDL: 135x15 - quick reps to 10, great set.
DB OHP: 90x15
BTN Lat Pull Down: 120x15
Dips: BWx15
Tricep Press Down: 90x40*
<span style='color:DarkRed'>*I remembered reading that one may stop less than 15 if they felt that deep muscle burn, I had not really felt that on the lifts, so I wanted to keep going...and I think I did 42 or so and started to feel it.</span>
cambered bar curl: 40x15 ... could have done millions
DB Shrugs: 150x15 ... peanuts

Added these exercises:
Decline Crunches: BWx15
Lunges: BWx15
Calves: 275x30

Cardio: 10 minutes of tread mill walk post lifting up to 4.0 speed. .5 mile completed then lots of stretching and i was off the gym floor at 6:22pm.

I'm recovering/still fixing loardsis that i developed, hence no squatting. Lots of lower back/hip and hammy issues... lots of stretching.

I didn't text 15 RM for the lunges... i know you're not supposed to do this, but i'm going to add them in lol... leg presses I think instead actually or in addition to.
 
here's the layout:

note, S1, S2, S3 means session 1, session 2, etc

DB Bench:
S1 = 100
S2 = 110
S3 = 120
S4 = 130
S5 = 140
S6 = NEW PR

Barbell Rows:
S1 = 115
S2 = 120
S3 = 125
S4 = 130
S5 = 135
S6 = NEW PR

Romanian Dead Lift:
S1 = 135
S2 = 140
S3 = 145
S4 = 150
S5 = 155
S6 = NEW PR

DB OHP:
S1 = 90
S2 = 95
S3 = 100
S4 = 105
S5 = 110
S6 = NEW PR

BTN Lat Pull Down:
S1 = 120
S2 = 125
S3 = 130
S4 = 135
S5 = 140
S6 = NEW PR


Dips:
S1 = BW
S2 = BW
S3 = BW
S4 = BW
S5 = NEW PR
S6 = NEW PR

Tricep press down:
S1 = 90
S2 = 95
S3 = 100
S4 = 105
S5 = 110
S6 = NEW PR

wide grip EZ barbell curl:
S1 = 40
S2 = 45
S3 = 50
S4 = 55
S5 = 60
S6 = NEW PR

DB Shrugs:
S1 = 150
S2 = 170
S3 = 190
S4 = 210
S5 = 230
S6 = NEW PR
 
some side notes:

I hit a brick wall overtraining, CNS burnout, felt like crap.

1 week after felt great, did the 15 RM testing workout.

1 week after that is the above workout.
 
Several things, Sarge. I'd like to know your stats. There are some really good lifts you have there - especially db bench. But then you seem to fall out on dips, just by comparison; I do less on the db bench (incline) but am adding about 115 with my 210lbs bw for wide dips, and more for narrow tricep dips. It just seemed like you were 'sandbagging' a bit there!
It looks like you have a strong chest. One week would be a minimum for a deload, two is better in order for the submax weights to do some good. After a 5x5, a week might be very much like a full deload; I dunno, I'm on my 1st 5x5.
 
Sarge: one good pointer to use in setting up your cycle is to start with around 75% of your RM for each mesocycle and work up from there. For many of your exercises you are quite close to this, but for a few you are a fair bit off. It doesn't matter that much but it's a pretty useful rule of thumb.

It looks as if you are pushing for PRs in every lift at the end of your first few weeks of 15s. Whilst you can do this, it's not really necessary and may lead to more fatigue as the cycle continues. If you have a bit of zig-zag at the start of 10s you'll probably recover enough though (but don't forget that fatigue is cumulative and you want to ).

Once you have reached your 5RM at the end of the second week of 5s you can start to push for new PRs then. I usually spend a week or so doing this and then keep to those loads for a further two weeks (or continue to increment and do negs where possible). However, because of the frequency of HST (3 x weekly) and the heavy loads you may find that you can't push the loads up as much as you had hoped.

If you are really keen to see how much you can lift at the end of your cycle, another thing you could try would be to drop to 2 x weekly. This will allow a bit more time for strength recovery and for some accumulated fatigue to dissipate. You might well do a fair bit better and get more PRs.

Once your loads have picked up a bit in your big compounds (like RDLs) you'll want to use larger increments than 5lbs. Even at this stage a 10lb increment would work. You could do 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160. Sure the 110 will feel light but if you've SDed properly they will still give you a good blast. You can always pump out some more reps too. Just don't go too close to failure.

For your EZ bar curls you might have been better starting at around 50lbs and doing something like this: 50, 55, 55, 60, 60, 65.

OK, enough from me! Have fun.
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Good stuff bros.

oh yeah...stats, lol...

6'
~222.0lbs .... i'm cutting, hit my all time high of 232lbs in Jan 2007

I've been down to 214 or so, but just got back from The Arnold and off scheduled diet
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I'm still on a cuttting diet and will continue to do so.

Thank you!  That's so funny to read... i've never had a strong chest, just this past year i've started to get it up to par.

I've RDL 405x2 at 190lbs ... but since my back issue, haven't been able to pull like I would like to.

I've pushed my bench up to (i think...sad that i dont' know for sure...) 230x3 (?) ... I ONLY CGBP (close grip) bench now.  It's been like butter for my shoulders... tucked elbows into lats.  That bench push was from September 06 - right before deload 3 weeks ago.  (a few mini deloads in there)...

ok i'm blabbering i'm exhausted just got back from 5 hours of class after work.

*goes and reads replies again*

oh... yeah dips are new to me, I struggled with them for awhile.  And while i was pushing bench I did 3 sets of 5-8 with 20lbs added ... i think that was the pinnicale of my dipping so far.

I'm feeling fresher than I ever have and i'm ready to push some big weights... those 2 weeks off were much needed.

BTW: Barbell shrugs (Dynamic) i'm avoiding so I can push my chest more.

Otherwise those would be up around the 5 plate/side range. ... and the DB's in my gym only go to 115's.

I appreaciate all the input guys!! i'll have to re read again in the morning/afternoon ... i hope i gave you some more quality background and info about me to digest
smile.gif
 
I re-read your numbers and noticed another anomaly&gt; your pressdowns are good for your size/weight, but 60 lb. BB curls? I warm up with 100. Were you meaning per side? Or do you have some tendonitis or epicondilitis? If so, I feel ya bro. HST pretty much cured mine.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Mar. 07 2007,07:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I re-read your numbers and noticed another anomaly&gt; your pressdowns are good for your size/weight, but 60 lb. BB curls? I warm up with 100. Were you meaning per side? Or do you have some tendonitis or epicondilitis? If so, I feel ya bro. HST pretty much cured mine.</div>
Used to have tennis elbow in my left one, but that hasn't flared in years.

No, that's 60lbs total, lol.

I'm starting to think my 15RM &quot;exploration&quot; session had a huge impact in killing some lifts....

I will up the curls.

Session 2 coming up in a few hours.
 
welcome HidN!

I need to review my diet and tailor it a bit... that way the nights before lifting I have more calories.

S1, the first workout, was much better than S2... I attribute that all to reduced cals.

<span style='color:DarkRed'><span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>HST</span></span>
Session 2 (S2)
Hump Day
3.7.2007
12:15pm-1:00pm

<span style='color:DarkRed'>I will be typing total poundage for lifts, so if it's dumbells divide by 2 to find what I used in each hand. If I did a warm up set, it will be in grey following my scheduled 15 rep set.</span>

DB Bench: 110x15 <span style='color:SlateGray'>80x15</span>
BB Row: 120x15 <span style='color:SlateGray'>45x10</span>
RomDL: 140x15
DB OHP: 100x15
BTN Lat Pull Down: 130x15
Dips: BWx13* and a couple half reps... 13 was failure
Tricep Press Down: 100x15
Cambered bar curl: 65x15
DB Shrugs: 170x15
Decline Crunches: BWx15
Lunges: BWx15
Leg Press: 4p x 15 (2 sets)
Calves: 8p x 15

p= plate = 45lbs. Not sure what the sled itself weighs.


Cardio: 20 minutes of tread mill walk post lifting up to 4.0 speed. ~1.2 miles
 
Modified DB OHP... had to be in 10lb increments (no 52.5lb DB's ect)

Only 10lb jumps with lat pull down as well.

Added stuff... man i'm really messing this whole thing up.

Revamped Outline:

DB Bench:
S1 = 100
S2 = 110
S3 = 120
S4 = 130
S5 = 140
S6 = NEW PR

Barbell Rows:
S1 = 115
S2 = 120
S3 = 125
S4 = 130
S5 = 135
S6 = NEW PR

Romanian Dead Lift:
S1 = 135
S2 = 140
S3 = 145
S4 = 150
S5 = 155
S6 = NEW PR

DB OHP:
S1 = 90
S2 = 100
S3 = 110
S4 = 120
S5 = 130
S6 = NEW PR

BTN Lat Pull Down:
S1 = 120
S2 = 130
S3 = 130
S4 = 140
S5 = 140
S6 = NEW PR

Dips:
S1 = BW
S2 = BW
S3 = BW
S4 = BW
S5 = NEW PR
S6 = NEW PR

Tricep press down:
S1 = 90
S2 = 100
S3 = 110
S4 = 120
S5 = 130
S6 = NEW PR

wide grip EZ barbell curl:
S1 = 40
S2 = 65
S3 = 70
S4 = 75
S5 = 80
S6 = NEW PR

DB Shrugs:
S1 = 150
S2 = 170
S3 = 190
S4 = 210
S5 = 230
S6 = NEW PR

Lunges:
S1 = BW
S2 = BW
S3 = BW+20
S4 = BW+20
S5 = BW+30
S6 = NEW PR

Leg Press:
S1 = 180
S2 = 230
S3 = 230
S4 = 250
S5 = 250
S6 = NEW PR

Calves:
S1 = 275
S2 =
S3 =
S4 =
S5 =
S6 = NEW PR

Decline Sit Ups:
S1 = BW
S2 = BW
S3 = BW+5
S4 = BW+10
S5 = BW+15
S6 = NEW PR
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Mar. 07 2007,07:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I re-read your numbers and noticed another anomaly&gt; your pressdowns are good for your size/weight, but 60 lb. BB curls? I warm up with 100. Were you meaning per side? Or do you have some tendonitis or epicondilitis? If so, I feel ya bro. HST pretty much cured mine.</div>
i'm using the lat pull down bar for tricep pressdowns on the cable... If i was curling it'd be the same weight.

If i was skull crushing the EZ curl bar it'd be around the same weight... so I guess my arms are weak.

Maybe that's why their small proportionally?

Hmmm, i never thought about it that way... I always avoided being a curl jockey but maybe it'd do me some good at this point?
 
Quadancer...

now that I've failed on dips at 13 reps... do you think that's chest of tri weakness.

Or just the fact that I don't dip first in the training order?


Just curious, i'm not going to change anything for this mesocycle anymore.
 
failing at the bottom stretch...chest weakness.
failing to lock out arms at top....tricep weakness.

You are probably just not used to them, so your body is not efficient at firing the right motor units yet. Since your DB bench and tricep pushdown are strong, you should be doing heavy dips in a few weeks or so, once your nervous system 'learns' the lift.

I have tried everything for chest, and wide-grip (28&quot;) dips are the best- BAR NONE, my pecs are always really stretched and pumped after them. But my pecs are small, so my dip is weak also.
 
Heheh, that's not weakness at all! Average Joe can't do two.
Dips: Narrow grip, head up, back straight is triceps.
        Wide grip, head down, back arched (forward) is chest.
Always pay attention to your joints doing dips. They're fantastic, but do stress some guy's shoulders, depending on your skeletal structure.

jAaaak! We answered at the same time...wide grip for me is 36&quot;, narrow is about 28&quot;. It depends on how wide your shoulders are. The lats help some too.
 
Sarge

Just a fewwords,I'v ebeen on training and therefore do not access the net that much this week.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">2 week deload complete</div>

Is it SD or deload? SD would have been better.

As for the weights,i wouldn't sweat it too much trying to be on par with everything,but yeah some lifts need work,it'llget there!

I still feel youdoing too darn much p/workout,go read simnplify and win and reduce stuff down to 6 exercises maximum,this will help when the load gets heavier and you'll be doing 3 sets of 5's, but it is up to you, after all you're no novice to the iron but beware oif HST, it has a funny way of catching up with you if you don't reduce things.

One other option is to alternate workouts, that way you can do 12 exercises 6 at a time.

Cheers mate and happy lifting!
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