HST and Dieting

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by BigL, Feb 17, 2006.

  1. BigL

    BigL New Member

    Hi all

    In the first week of January I started my HST cycle and I have been dieting/doing cardio with it consistently.

    The first few weeks I was losing weight but over the last 4 weeks or so I havent lost anything. I actually gained .5 of a pound.

    This is the same diet i have used in the past and I have lost a lot of weight, but at that time i was not working out anymore. So i guess my question is whether I am not losing anymore weight because perhaps I am putting on muscle mass? I remember reading once if you squat hard, consistently, you will put on muscle mass weight. Could this be the reason?I am not sure if thats is because I read if you diet and do HST you will cut up rather then bulk up?

    I am just looking for some help because I am just getting frustrated. I do cardio 3 times a week for a half hour and It seems as if its going to waste.

    Thanks for your time.
     
  2. joseph63

    joseph63 New Member

    Proper nutrition is demanding. Calories in v calories out is pretty basic, but actually knowing how many calories you're eating every day is difficult unless you measure your food.

    Establishing a baseline of calories is the first step. If you're eating the same amount of calories every day for a 2 week period and don't lose or gain any weight, you've got your baseline maintenance calories.

    To lose, cut some calories each day, to gain add some calories.

    Make sure you're doing the basics:
    Fix protein @ 1 gram per lb of body weight.
    Eat every 2 1/2-3 hours.
    Fix healthy fats @ around 25% of carlories.
    Use carbs as your adjustment. If you need to remove calories, remove carbs. If you need to add calories, add carbs.

    Your cardio is not wasted effort. You need it for your health and it burns calories. If you're trying to lose bodyfat, cardio is an easy way to burn some calories to help you get your caloric deficit. I personally would rather do a little more cardio then cut more calories.

    Also, as you get leaner, it gets tougher to keep losing bodyfat. You may need a break from dieting (I like to eat maintenance calories during my SD period. Feels good and hopefully helps my body get ready for the next round of dieting).
     
  3. BigL

    BigL New Member

    Thanks, but could it be that I am actually burning body fat but also adding muscle mass, which is why the scale is not reflecting any weight loss? That is ideally what I am trying to do. I just dont measure my body fat.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  4. joseph63

    joseph63 New Member

    It's possible you've added some muscle mass and burned off some bodyfat, so your weight hasn't changed. That's difficult to do for most people. You've got to get your calories just right, where you have a slight caloric deficit.

    If you're trying to get leaner, you're going to have to be more diligent about diet.
     
  5. beaul

    beaul New Member

    Also, If you kept your diet exactly the same throughout that could make a difference. During the 15's it gets pretty intense when you do 15 constant reps. And even in the 10's if your doing 2 sets.

    But in the 5's your just not working your cardiovascular system as hard. At least i don't. I take more rest in between the sets and it just doesn't make me work as hard. Same reason some people see more muscle gain in the 5's because they kept their diet the same and didn't gain any in the 15's.
     
  6. BigL

    BigL New Member

    Another question, if you are using HST to try and cut up is it wise to take a week off after every cycle? I remember reading you should go right into the 2nd cycle, but i think i can use a week off to rest.
     
  7. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    First of all, it is common for dieters to lose a significant amount of weight during the first couple weeks, according to the scale. This is typically water loss and probably glycogen. But remember, like someone else pointed out, you have to refigure your maintenance and your deficit every couple weeks to keep progress going.

    I wouldn't take a week off from HST, but I would take a week off from dieting every six weeks or so. So after six weeks, or eight weeks or whenever, take a week or so to eat at maintenance once again. That will hopefully negate the metabolic slowdown you'll see while dieting. If you really feel you need a week of rest, go ahead and take it. I would personally just cut down the work that week instead, maybe even doing two days only that week, with minimal volume.
     
  8. BigL

    BigL New Member

    <div>
    (Totentanz @ Feb. 20 2006,18:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">First of all, it is common for dieters to lose a significant amount of weight during the first couple weeks, according to the scale.  This is typically water loss and probably glycogen.</div>
    I am aware that a lot of the weight you lose early on is water, but this is a diet that has been successful for me over a long period of time in the past. Now since I started doing HST with it I have sort of levelled off quite fast.
     
  9. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    What's your current bodyfat percentage? If you aren't losing weight, you have to increase your calorie deficit either by doing more or eating less.
    Whatever you read about squatting adding mass is sort of misleading. You aren't really going to add mass while on a calorie deficit. It's not possible without drugs, or if you are very fat.

    But anyway, like I said, when your diet really plateaus, usually the best idea is to take a week or two off, eating at maintenance, but still working out. That can negate the metabolic slowdown that will inevitably hit you when you are dieting.
     
  10. BigL

    BigL New Member

    I do not know how to measure my body fat, I bought that caliper thing but that is worthless.

    Do you know how to?
     
  11. <div>
    (BigL @ Feb. 21 2006,15:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (Totentanz @ Feb. 20 2006,18:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">First of all, it is common for dieters to lose a significant amount of weight during the first couple weeks, according to the scale.  This is typically water loss and probably glycogen.</div>
    I am aware that a lot of the weight you lose early on is water, but this is a diet that has been successful for me over a long period of time in the past. Now since I started doing HST with it I have sort of levelled off quite fast.</div>
    If you must keep repeating a &quot;successful&quot; diet then I wouldn´t consider it very successfull. I would consider a successfull diet as one which helps a person loose a significant amount of inactive body mass, i.e. Fat, Once!

    After a significant amount of fat loss, one mus simply have the mental tenacity to have changed ones eating habits to maintain the desired body fat composition.

    I would say that anyone with a bodyfat percentage of 12 or below, (even 15% or below with the age of 40), should forget about dieting to lose fat and concentrate on proper nutrition and training the body to burn excess stored energy (fat) proper nutrition you can figure out and training the body to burn fat effieciently comes through cardio.

    I lost 20 kilos of fat over the last 3 years without really hardore dieting. During the last 6 months I did a strict diet and lost maybe 5 kilos of fat, but I packed on much muscle. The scale did show any real decreases in weight, but it was clear that I dropped fat because my clothing became really baggy, my body toned up as descerned from before an after pictures and my max weights kept increasing.

    I would say keep it healthy with the dieting. Stop dieting and eat properly and continue lifting and don´t worry about what the scale says as far as fat goes. If you are eating and lifting properly, you will loose fat and gain muscle and the scale will not help.

    Of course, if you are professional bodybuilder needing to cut up for a meet, ignore everything I have written! [​IMG]
     
  12. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Go to this site: http://www.linear-software.com/online.html
    Use your calipers to acquire the measurements required, the site will tell you what you need to measure. That should give you a fairly decent idea of where you stand. Note that the more sites you measure with the calipers, the more accurate, although obviously for the version that measures all sites, you'll need assistance from someone else.
     
  13. BigL

    BigL New Member

    drpierre, thats what i am experiencing. My clothes do fit looser but the scale does not reflect a change in weight. Recently my coworker also mentioned that I lost weight. This is why I orginally asked if it were possible that i was gaining muscle mass but burning body fat. Thanks for the post.

    totentanz, thanks for the site. Ill check it out.
     
  14. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (drpierredebs @ Feb. 23 2006,00:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I would say keep it healthy with the dieting. Stop dieting and eat properly and continue lifting and don´t worry about what the scale says as far as fat goes. If you are eating and lifting properly, you will loose fat and gain muscle and the scale will not help.</div>
    Seriously, I don't see how this is going to happen without drug usage, unless you consider two pounds of muscle gian a year to be acceptable results. Normal people cannot honestly expect to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously unless they are very new to lifting.
    You get far better results by following a bulking/cutting rotation. Someone who bulks and then cuts down later on will end up with more mass and better body composition in the end than someone who attempts to keep fat low or even lose fat while gaining muscle.
     
  15. <div>
    (Totentanz @ Feb. 23 2006,19:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Seriously, I don't see how this is going to happen without drug usage, unless you consider two pounds of muscle gian a year to be acceptable results.  Normal people cannot honestly expect to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously unless they are very new to lifting.
    You get far better results by following a bulking/cutting rotation.  Someone who bulks and then cuts down later on will end up with more mass and better body composition in the end than someone who attempts to keep fat low or even lose fat while gaining muscle.</div>
    I have gained well over 7,5 kilograms of LBM within 1.5 years without drugs, without anything more than increasing my protein intake, without really dieting, WITH lots and LOTS of cardio and before finding HST. This started after 1 solid year of lifting weights.  Maybe my genetic backup helped and maybe this type of gain will not be repeatable, but I doubt it.

    Will I ever be able to enter a BB or PL competition? probably not without AAS, but this is not my goal.  I wouldn´t consider what I do in then gym as Body building  for competition.

    If he lifts hard, eats right and gets enough rest, he will gain WAY more than 1,5 lbs of LBM .

    Other than that, I stand by my original post.

    with friendly greeting,

    Pierre
     
  16. BigL

    BigL New Member

    Pierre, how strict is your diet? Do you have any cheat meals? I try to keep it strict Mon-Fri so I can slack off a little on the weekends.

    Also, what kind of cardio do you do? I walk on an incline for 30 minutes; speed 2.8 and the incline at 10.0. I get a good sweat. I would like to run instead, but I was told that is nto recommended during an HST cycle.
     
  17. Hi,

    I am a Spinning instructor so I do ALOT of biking, plus starting spring I usually hit at least 300km per week outdoors. This is my first try with HST and I will see how it plays out with my cardio.

    RE: diet, Nothing most level headed people don´t know already. I try to take in about 200 grams per day of protein from fish, chicken and eggs. I supplement with Amino Acids prior to and after every workout or bike ride. During long rides I usually put amino acids in the water bottle mixed with apple juice. I have been supplementing with Amino Acids long before I started with HST and may explain why I continued to add muscle in spite of massive amounts of cardio. Other than this, I eat pretty much what is suggested by the HST except when I burn alot of calories , like more than 6000 during a bike race or heavy Spinning day, I usually eat about 200 grams of chocolate. I eat basically what I want when I want to within reason. But I had to decide a while back to change my lifestyle and this included my eating habits. Thus I don´t need to diet anymore. I look at energy expenditure versus energy intake as a meter by which I need to shed fat mass.
     
  18. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Pierre, you can believe what you want, but that effect will not continue for long. Once you have an appreciable amount of lean mass, it is virtually impossible to gain more without gaining fat alongside, much less LOSING fat alongside it.
     
  19. <div>
    (Totentanz @ Feb. 25 2006,14:46)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Pierre, you can believe what you want, but that effect will not continue for long.  Once you have an appreciable amount of lean mass, it is virtually impossible to gain more without gaining fat alongside, much less LOSING fat alongside it.</div>
    yes i agree.. I just haven´t hit this point yet.....I hope not at least... [​IMG]
     
  20. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    Step 1.

    Take the scale and chunk it as far as you can throw it.

    Step 2. Buy a full length mirror and grease pen

    Step 3. Buy a myotape

    Step 4. Track you energy intake and use daily

    USe the mirror and myotape to gauge your dieting sucess by having your significant other mark your prominent outline points in the mirror (Shoulders, Waist, Hips) with the grease pen. This will tell you visually what others will see. Have them also once every other week check myotape measurements for waist, hips, shoulders, thighs. If waist and hips decrease while shoulder and thighs increase your are on the right track.
     

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