HST porgressive overload question?

R

Rooster81

New Member
I am trying to understand the progressive overload idea. How are you overloading your muscle if you only go to max weight for 15 reps and only add 5-10 lbs per drop in reps? The way I see it is if you can do a max of reps of 15 with let’s say 25 lbs. and that’s what you start with how is that overload?(you are already able to do this without failure) In order to overload you would need to step past that volume of work meaning 15 reps x 25 lbs= a total load of 375. Now if I decrease my reps and up my weight to your recommended 10 reps x 30 lbs I have only done 300lbs of total load which is even less than my original total load at 15 reps. If I were to up my weight to 40 lbs and do 10 reps now I’ve overloaded my muscles by doing a total volume of 400lbs, thats 25 lbs above my previous total load. This is only the one part of the HST routine I am confused about. I’m not doubting the HST system I want to try it but the progressive load theory just doesn’t jive with what I know as overloading the muscles. I ask that you please respond to my question so when people ask me about HST I am better apt to answer them correctly.

Please understand I am not flamming or bashing HST. Once you guys explain this one question I have... I'll be giving it a shot because quite simply it doesn't look over complicated and the really like the ideas presented.
 
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progressive overload means to increase weight on the bar. It is not about increasing volume. So if your 15RM in a given lift is 100lbs, you start your 15s with something like 75lbs for 15 reps, then on the second workout you do 80lbs for 15 reps, increase that to 85lbs for 15 reps on the 3rd workout and so on until you get to the 6th workout when you are using your 15RM, 100lbs in this example for 15 reps. You progressively increase the load used from 75lbs to 100lbs during the course of this mesocycle. Continuing with the example, if your 10RM on the same lift is 120lbs then let's say you'll start your 7th workout, the first workout of the 10s mesocycle with 90lbs for 10 reps. This is less then you did on your last workout but this zig-zag allows your body to recover from the last workout which had you lifting your 15RM. The second workout of the 10s will have you lifting, for example, 96lbs, and the 3rd, 102lbs which is already higher then your 6th workout. By the last workout of the 10s you are lifting 120lbs, and so on.
 
Why is the FAQ sub-forum open for people to create new threads? This sub-forum should be locked so that only Bryan or other authorized people can post new content.
 
If its a FAQ it goes here LOL.

I would like to see the study on this, I am very confused about it because a lot of articles I read about progressive overload seem to think increasing reps counts aswell. Bryan mentioned progressive load not overload and I havent come across a study on it.
 
The suggestion is to keep volume (total reps per workout) constant while increasing load. That means 1x15, 1.5 or 2x10, 3x5 or 2x15, 3x10, 3-6x5. If you are keeping total reps somewhat constant and increasing the weight progressively, the total workload as "weight lifted x reps done" is going to increase progressively too. Of course if you were doing 2x15 it is unlikely you'll be doing 6x5 to keep total number of reps constant, but with higher load you need less volume therefore when you are in the heavier part of the 5s you don't need to get the same number of total reps you were getting during your 15s.
 
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Instead of doing that 2nd week of 15s can you go to 12s and then to two weeks of 10s for example?
Is this way of doing, or maybe doing every week different rep amount, letäs say 15s-12s-10s-8s and then twp 5s, more damaging to your body and may cause more fatigue?

I don't fully understand all the principles yet but going there.
I did pre HST couple of weeks ago, with one week 15s then 10s and then 5s and now after reading almost one week of different articles, faq book and others, I decided to go with 15s, 12s then 10s 10s and 5s and 5s. Sounds okay?


And by the way, what's the idea always doing it in 2 week cycles? I know some of this was explained in home page og HST but wouldänt it be more effective to do every week towards your RM of the current rep count, like I asked about doing 15s 12s and so on. What is it based on that you do it (the gain towards your RM) in six training sessions in two weeks? Does this make it available to put progressive load better than on 3 training, one week sessions?


And can someone explain, how it is measured to get the difference between your first training weight (in 15s) and the last one (in 5s) bigger if you after one cycle add in EVERY workout you did 2,5 lb for example? Doesn't this mean the difference between first training weight (in 15s) and the last one (in 5s) is still the same? I don't get it...and Hancock himself suggest that the increase, or the success is measured the difference of those tow wieghts, so you should either lower the first weight or increase the last one but he still suggest to add weight to each training session of the last cycle...still confused about all this.

I ALMOST get the big picture...still some questions...


sorry for all this at one time...but I just want to know this, the whole idea. This way i ahve better understanding what I am doing at the gym. I want this to work!!!


Thank you already.
 
Entomba said:
I don't get it...and Hancock himself suggest that the increase, or the success is measured the difference of those tow wieghts, so you should either lower the first weight or increase the last one but he still suggest to add weight to each training session of the last cycle...still confused about all this.
Click to expand...

HANCOCK, i love that movie!!

try this ENTOMBA it will explain everything

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info/iB_html/uploads/HST_Faq_book.pdf

(hope the link works)
 
Thanks LDU, but I've already read it...and as I am a blonde, I cannot suck all the info in it. :P

I read that fa-book in two nights and I have SOOO many questions regarding it...
 
HST Principles Summarized

Hi Entomba,
I think it will be much easier to understand the suggested method that is outlined on this website and in the other sources you’ve mentioned if you first understand the principles upon which the method is build. I will try to summarize:

1) Mechanical Load is the primary stimulus for adult muscle growth.

2) The load must be of sufficient magnitude to elicit a growth response. This can be referred to as the “Minimum Effective Load” (MEL).

3) The MEL must be applied for sufficient duration to elicit growth (i.e. Time Under Load or Time Under Tension or Time-Tension Integral). This is commonly called Minimum Effective Volume (MEV).

4) The MEL must be applied with sufficient frequency for a net gain of muscle tissue.

Now, here’s the kicker principles (and by kicker I mean bummer).

5) The MEL and MEV threshold for triggering growth is not static, but moves up or down depending on the loading environment to which it was most recently subjected to.

6) As the threshold moves up MEL and MEV must be increased if a consistent rate of growth is to occur. This principle is most commonly referred to as Progressive Load, or Progressive Resistance, or Progressive Overload.

7) As the threshold moves up, further growth becomes slower and more difficult until further growth eventually stops. This is sometimes called the principle of diminishing returns. The physiological adaptation is referred to as the “Repeated Bout Effect” (RBE).

These are the basic principles of exercise induced muscle growth. No matter what combination of sets and reps and weight and frequency a person uses, they are dealing with (battling?) these same principles. Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST) is the method(s) that we use to gain as much muscle as we can in as little time as we can; working in and around these principles.
 
So, does the aforementioned threshold move up as you approach your genetic limit? I just need to distinguish it from a temporary threshold that will be reset after a period of SD.
 
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