I can't do HST!

I

ian

New Member
I have a confession....I’ve never been able to complete a full cycle of HST!
I love the forum and I love the ideas/ concepts behind HST, but there just one central theme I can’t follow….

• The idea that in a large percentage of your workouts you don’t work to full intensity.

I appreciate that your all going to say, ‘well that’s one of the main principals so your just not going to appreciate HST’ and maybe you’re right. I also appreciate what the title HYPERTROPHY specific training means, so maybe I’m should just shut up and try something else, but to me going to the gym is as much about testing yourself in every workout as it is putting on muscle. To me it’s the one area of life where it’s just me, no one else to blame or rely on. In football, for example, there’s one million excuses, the weather, the other team, there’s your team ….. in the gym, there’s me against that piece of metal. I appreciate I’m sounding a tad too poetic here, but I’m sure you know what I mean!

As a result when I try to do the low intensity sections of the routine I just get embarrassed...... not embarrassed that other people are watching, but embarrassed with myself for not having to put the effort in. It’s not about how heavy the weight is, I just want to know I can’t do anymore at the end of my set.

Does anyone have any ideas for me or has anyone ever felt the same way or should I just get lost!!!
 
No need to get lost!

Why don't you try something along the lines of what Sci-Muscle is doing.

He is basically working with much heavier weights all of the time and making smaller increases in load.

IMO his workout is more mentally satisfying!
 
Ian, bear in mind that HST is not about fatigue training. What we are trying to accomplish over a cycle is to keep fatigue in check as much as possible whilst lifting the required loads enough times to stimulate a PS response.

You may not realise it, but the stronger you get the longer it will take for your CNS to recover form a high-fatigue workout which will compromise the loads you can lift once you reach the heavy end of you cycle. This is not so much an issue if you are only training each body-part once a week but it is more important if you are doing full-body training, three times a week.

Try this:

Take your 10RM load for squats. One session do 6 sets of 5 reps with it. Take a few minutes rest between sets. How do you feel? Tired and like your legs are well worked but not completely shattered.

Next session use the same load and do 10 reps (should be brutal), then as many as you can each set (brutal each time) until you have completed 30 reps. How do you feel now compared to the first experiment?
smile.gif


In each case you have accomplished the same amount of work (well, that's assuming your form didn't go to hell on the failure sets) and applied the same amount of strain to the muscle tissue, but in the first case you didn't tax your CNS so heavily and you reduced the build up of metabolic by-products between each bout.

Granted, doing only 5 reps with your 10RM may not cause all fibres to fire during the first set (although it might by the last few reps) but by the final set of 5 things will be much harder because there will be some build up of fatigue.

You are working up to failure for a particular rep range once a fortnight so you are better able to keep your CNS fresh which should enable you to lift heavier and for longer at the end of the cycle. As a cycle continues you get to use heavier and heavier loads so your CNS will eventually take a beating. You can see that HST is quite a lot to do with CNS fatigue management.

Another advantage to not going all out on every set of every session is that you can ensure that your form is really good for most of your reps. It'll only start to compromise at close to, or on, your RM workouts (or at the end of 5s if you keep them going for several weeks).

One thing to watch out for with setting up an HST cycle is that you don't make the mistake of using loads which are just too light from the outset. Be sure to start with a load which is not less than 75% of your 15RM. If you have taken a week or so off of all training prior to the start of a cycle, even those loads will feel a lot heavier than you expect and from then on it's all a lot of fun.

Also, when using these 'light' loads at the start of the cycle it's quite ok to keep pumping out the reps beyond 15 if you want to. After all, the 15s are as much about getting a burn going than anything else. Just don't go to all out failure each time if you want to benefit from frequent, full-body workouts. Keep a rep or two in the tank each set.

There's a lot more to say on the subject but Bryan and Blade have covered it all so do read through as many sections of the HST FAQs as you can.
 
Give that man a beer, uh, protein shake. Seriously, Lol's explanation is on spot and one of the best I have read so far.
 
<div>
(ian @ Mar. 11 2008,05:43)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">• The idea that in a large percentage of your workouts you don’t work to full intensity.</div>
You do realize that unless you use your 1 RM every single time you train, you will almost never be training maximally, right?
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Mar. 11 2008,16:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You do realize that unless you use your 1 RM every single time you train, you will almost never be training maximally, right?</div>
Yesss! Thank you!

I keep wanting to point that out every time someone complains about using &quot;sub max&quot; weights. Every weight is &quot;sub max&quot; unless you are at your 1RM...
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The object is to utilize the &quot;sub max&quot; weights in such a manner as to induce the most hypertrophy with the least CNS fatigue, and that is HST's specialty.
 
I see the point you guys are making. But I agree with the OP, using weights that are not even challenging IS a waste of time. Adaptations happen because of stress.
He may have started too light, or maybe he just like's training close to his strength limits (aka- going close to failure, like I do).
It sounds like he would really enjoy more of a SST/DC type of program. I know I do.
 
However, even with those programs, you will be going through periods where you will be using weights that are not challenging.
 
i agree with the orig poster and sci (to a degree). if you cant control your w/os to the point of starting reasonable, 70-80% of 5rm for higher reps, and continue to prog. load then this isnt the prog. for you.

like many i dont think you have to 15, 10, 5 for a few weeks each and then SD and start over, lots and lots of room for flex. and variation etc. etc.

but if you have to pound it every w/o then well maybe it isnt for you.

good luck
 
Yeah, if you want to work heavier you can and still keep it within the HST framework. You have to remember that HST is only a set of principles, not an actual routine (as we all repeat constantly) and can be setup in a variety of different ways.

Also, if you cannot ever control yourself enough to start at as low as 70-80% of your 5 RM, well... you will eventually learn better, because you cannot sustain that sort of thing indefinitely. Eventually you will need to lay off a little bit and take it easy. Sure, it may be as long as a year or more before you have to, if you are real lucky, but it will happen eventually.


If you consider &quot;testing&quot; yourself to mean pushing yourself to your absolute max constantly, then okay. Personally, I think it is more of a test to see how well you can stick to your plans and carry them out. The most successful people with the most consistent results are the people that can stick to their plans over the long term, the people who can overcome their psychological barriers through will and discipline. Personally, I think that is a more impressive demonstration of testing yourself than going into the gym and beating the crap out of yourself many times a week.
 
And psychological reasonings are well-tied into HST. One requirement is to lose interest in what others think of your workouts. They don't know that you're hitting your muscles about 33% more often than they are. And that every two weeks you'll be worked up FULLBODY to your maxes in the mesocycle. And that in the fives, you'll be going long as possible, gaining strength upon strength, raising your maxes and resetting the next cycle.
It helps to just keep your face in the log book between sets and just be too busy to notice. Results will say enough for you.
 
Well it's good to see i'm not alone and the rest of you don’t hate me!
Really appreciate the advice though.

The only thing i will say to people that are disagreeing with me.... I’m not sure whether you’re getting my point. I appreciate that HST (as the title suggests) is a set of principles to put on muscle, but as I said, to me going to the gym is as much about enjoying it as getting the results and I enjoy killing myself in there (even if my gains may not be as good as yours).

I’m not sure I agree with the 1RM point though . If you work to your 8RM or 15 RM or anything with the word max in it, you’re pushing yourself to your limit. I suppose it’s all a matter of opinion, I mean you state that to you the discipline of carrying out a routine is impressive. Quite simply to me, it’s not. So we just have to agree to disagree.

I think I’ll have to read over all of the principles as LOL has suggested, then pester some of the guys that think in the same way as myself to create an ideal HST hybrid for me.

Thanks for your replies though!
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I’m not sure I agree with the 1RM point though . If you work to your 8RM or 15 RM or anything with the word max in it, you’re pushing yourself to your limit. I suppose it’s all a matter of opinion, I mean you state that to you the discipline of carrying out a routine is impressive. Quite simply to me, it’s not. So we just have to agree to disagree.</div>
The idea of intensity is applied in different ways in the world of weight training. What the folks here are saying is that maximum intensity is considered as a percentage of your 1RM load for a particular lift. (Some folks use intensity to refer to the amount of fatigue they built up in a muscle.) Lifting your 5RM five times would see you lifting at about 90% intensity for 5 reps. That's 90% - even though you couldn't do another rep. Using intensity in this way, along with volume, is generally a much more useful way to set up a training program.
 
i dont understand why you want to do HST.
you seem to get more enjoyment (more interest) out of pushing your w/os (and yourself) to the max every time out as opposed to parceling that effort out over more freq. but less &quot;intense&quot; w/os as the cycle goes on.

so why not just do what you like to do? as you said your not as interested in the hypertrophy aspect as you are in challenging yourself each w/o so why try and make a &quot;hypertrophy specific&quot; type of w/o into one that does something else?

there are plenty of other programs that ascribe to the blood on the walls, once a week, take no prisoners type of w/o's. i would think you would enjoy those much more then trying to make HST fit.

good luck
 
Blasphemy!
Naw, Ol' Blue is right; do what motivates you, just do it intelligently. I loved 3 sets of 8 for years, until I had no joints left, hadn't grown any in years, and got sick enough of it to quit for about 3 years.
Man, if I'd known then what I know now! (Iydda beena contenda!)
rock.gif
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The only thing i will say to people that are disagreeing with me.... I’m not sure whether you’re getting my point. I appreciate that HST (as the title suggests) is a set of principles to put on muscle, but as I said, to me going to the gym is as much about enjoying it as getting the results and I enjoy killing myself in there (even if my gains may not be as good as yours).</div>

I've been there too mate, and os have most of us, but I figured after trying a myriad of other s...t that HST is the ultimate becuase it is a smarter way to work out, as Lol puts it you got to ignore what others think about your w/o or even change your mind set.

To me your wining even if just a little.

There is a part to HST, when you get to 5's and beyond that is all balls to the wall, and then all of us will agree it is damn staidfying but once one comprehends that less is actually more, and that to get real gains one has to train smarter...there is nothing to it...really.

It is this simple, you either get it and do it or you don't get it and we're not going to hate you for it, the HST &quot;gang&quot;, has a variety of other stuff that some of us do even if from time to time.

Have you tried Max-Stim? Well...how about doing 20 reps with your 5 RM? Sound good? Go get it! Maybe you like the fatigue thing...hey,there is 5 x 5, all heavy, or even occlusion training...man...if I carry on I'm going to gag!

Stick around...read...choose your favourite and enjoy...I'm sure you'll have a gas!
wink.gif
 
ian, have you tried DC?
Its similar to HST in many ways (high frequency, progressive overload, lower volume) except its all about getting fatigue and doing your best each time.
 
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(Sniggel @ Mar. 18 2008,11:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">ian, have you tried DC?
Its similar to HST in many ways (high frequency, progressive overload, lower volume) except its all about getting fatigue and doing your best each time.</div>
Yeah, if you don't mind working out while standing in a pool of your own blood. It's kind of a &quot;balls to the wall&quot; program!

Then again, based on your posts, you might just enjoy such a thing.
 
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