Important question

[[xeno]Julios]

Bodybuilding is a complex endeavour, and requires different forms of investment. To fulfill nutritional requirements, one has to devote time, attention, and mental effort to simply learning about them; then, to logistically succeed in acquiring, preparing, and consuming the meals. Not to mention bearing the financial burden.

Anything that can optimize the requirements is therefore most welcome.

Basically, the question is whether these nutritional requirements are stable throughout the active portion of the HST cycle. If not, how do they vary:



*do they steadily increase from the beginning of the 15's to the end of the neg's?

*do they cycle with (essential) intensity?

*do they fluctuate depending on whether it's an off or on day?

 

[Dianabol]

Dear [xeno]Julios,

1. Bodybuilding is a complex endeavour, and requires different forms of investment. To fulfill nutritional requirements, one has to devote time, attention, and mental effort to simply learning about them; then, to logistically succeed in acquiring, preparing, and consuming the meals. Not to mention bearing the financial burden.

>>>> I second such opinion. At the same time, such lifestyle change once implemented can be done quite affordably. I've had people tell me that bodybuilding is too expensive yet they'd spend $70/week on cigarettes and nearly twice that amount at discoes come the weekend. Money is meant to be spent, but it is up to us to make a wise investment. Investing in health always is a sound investment.

2. Basically, the question is whether these nutritional requirements are stable throughout the active portion of the HST cycle. If not, how do they vary:

>>>> Basically, they remain the same if volume remains the same. If volume decrease one might wish to decrease food intake but one must also bear in mind their calorie allotment for weight-gain. Lest we forget, protein synthesis stimulated by the workout lasts for 35-48 hours. This means the day after training, those genes still are switched on and we must therefore provide substrate (food) to obtain the end-result of hypertrophy. In the non-active portion (I take this to mean SD), make sure you are protein adequate and then, be at maintenance calories or so. No point overeating at this point since the genes are not switched on for growth. No point undereating either since the lack of activity with lack of nutrition can result in significant muscle loss.

*do they steadily increase from the beginning of the 15's to the end of the neg's?

>>>> I wouldn't say they'd increase, no. Not unless your volume was increasing. For me, I keep my reps at 45. This is how I count volume. I do 3 sets of 15s = 45 reps, and so for all other phases I do 45 reps - this includes reps in drop sets. Hmm... thinking about it now... to be honest, even an equal volume doesn't equate to equal growth since it is with the higher mechanical load that we milk real growth and for this reason, even with the same number of reps, I tend to eat more in the heavier phases of HST. This could mean just 500 calories more per day. So perhaps, yes. It might be wise to take in more food during the heavier phases since that is where we experience most growth.

*do they cycle with (essential) intensity?

>>>> Hmmm.... intensity.... you've just mentioned the "I" word... bad.... Well, if you are feeling drained and fatigued, eating more won't hurt. One thing trainers fail to recognize is this - as they progress in their cycle they should also keep an eye on their weight. Should their weight be increasing, what might be 300 calories over maintenance at the start of the cycle can become maintenance mid-cycle. What then? Increase calories of course, if the intention is to grow.

*do they fluctuate depending on whether it's an off or on day?

>>>> As mentioned, days between workouts still experience a growth stimulus spillover so to speak, and to cut intake then would be to shortchange oneself of all possible growth.
Food intake is an issue - quality food costs money and takes time and effort to prepare. Supplements can only do that much. Since I buy my own food and prepare my own meals, what I do is buy in bulk when a good offer is on. This could mean chickens, legs of lamb, beef etc. I'd assemble what I need to eat for the day, prepare that, and proceed to feed on this throughout the day. If I feel extra hungry, I'd eat more from the pool of food. If I feel less hungry, I still force it down anyway to make sure that for this day, I've eaten this much. This sure beats weighing and measuring for several meals throughout the day. I might have to do that when my calories increase since eating three big meals of 1300 calories each can cause bloating, lethargy and discomfort.

Godspeed, and happy HSTing

 

[[xeno]Julios]

thanks for the thoughtful reply dianabol - as usual your posts are a paradigm example of quality messages

I could see how nutritional requirements would spill over into the off days, since protein synthesis is active; however, the amount of energy spent (unless one is doing cardio), would be less - so while protein requirements may not change, could calorie requirements dip during off days?

As for intensity, while i understand hypertrophy is not a function of intensity, isn't there a generally sound correlation nonetheless between perceived intensity and expent energy, and perhaps even microtrauma to fibres? As you say, with higher mechanical load there is more of a growth stimulus.
As for the logistics and investment - while i don't mind investing in health - a lot of the food i eat is invested for aesthetic causes rather than simply purely health ones.

Secondly, I am on a tight budget - my main life expenses are school, rent, food, bills. I rarely spend money outside since i walk everywhere and my idea of a night out is spending it with friends on a patio, or playing pool/movie. Therefore, saving money on food is quite important. Also, being a fulltime student with a part time job, and sharing a kitchen and fridge with three other people, places certain constraints.

 

[Dianabol]

1. thanks for the thoughtful reply dianabol - as usual your posts are a paradigm example of quality messages

>>>> You are most welcome and have been most generous

2. I could see how nutritional requirements would spill over into the off days, since protein synthesis is active; however, the amount of energy spent (unless one is doing cardio), would be less - so while protein requirements may not change, could calorie requirements dip during off days?

>>>> Hmm... Yes, why not? Protein remains adequate, and calorie balance is in surplus but not that much of a surplus, growth should still occur but at a lower rate. Then again, the spillover protein synthesis slows down too, since after 48 hours we can say it comes to a grinding halt. And thus, it won't harm to taper down calories on off days really, but still keep it in overall calorie surplus. This should be fine I've read here and there of people targetting the bulk of their calories around the workout, where anabolism can be expected to be the highest, while they eat less on non-training days. This could be the most cost effective really, if we ignore issues of marginal growth.

3. As for intensity, while i understand hypertrophy is not a function of intensity, isn't there a generally sound correlation nonetheless between perceived intensity and expent energy, and perhaps even microtrauma to fibres? As you say, with higher mechanical load there is more of a growth stimulus.
As for the logistics and investment - while i don't mind investing in health - a lot of the food i eat is invested for aesthetic causes rather than simply purely health ones.

>>>> Well, usually, if it feels heavy, it is heavy. But heavy or light is a relative thing though, and if I had a good night's rest and am well carbed up, a weight could feel light. If I didn't sleep well and am not carbed up, the same weight would feel heavy. I'd rather ascertain my rep maxes and from there, plan my progression - show up, lift the weight whether I feel strong or not, and I know growth has been stimulated even though some days, the weight feels relatively lighter, and some days, I might have to cheat a little to get it up Indeed, food is costly to procure and also costly in terms of time and effort to prepare. Are you lactose intolerant, by any chance? And if you are prepared to ignore the A2 controversy (www.a2corporation.com) then you might wish to indulge yourself with milk?

4. Secondly, I am on a tight budget - my main life expenses are school, rent, food, bills. I rarely spend money outside since i walk everywhere and my idea of a night out is spending it with friends on a patio, or playing pool/movie. Therefore, saving money on food is quite important. Also, being a fulltime student with a part time job, and sharing a kitchen and fridge with three other people, places certain constraints.

>>>> Indeed. Do you like potatoes? They cook easily in the microwave and can be bought in bulk quantities - I thrive on meat and potatoes really. Another good carb food is rice. I get a 4kg (8.8lb) of potatoes for around USD$3/-. And really, on a bulking diet, you need only be protein adequate (1gm per pound bodyweight tops) and make the rest of the calories up with carbs. You can whack in the fat too to boost calories. See if there are bulk produce markets near you. At closing time, they'd normally rid their produce by the crate in very low prices. See if your housemates are willing to pool money to buy in bulk. This way, all of you save money and also get the season's freshest produce. If your freezer allows it, pool money and buy your meat in bulk i.e. whole lambs, whole sides of beef etc. This is another way to save cash too. Buying meat like that puts you in good rapport with the butcher too, and he/she would even trim the meat to its leanest and make lean sausages for you. Yum

Apart from meat, starchy carbs and milk, there isn't anything else to eat really, if you are considering cost effective bodybuilding foods. Well, this plan works for me though since I am also on a budget, so I buy my meat when it's on offer and freeze them, and also, thrive on sacks of potatoes and rice

You could try pulses and legumes too, since they are protein and carb combinations and can also be bought by the sackful quite cheaply. Their protein quality is perhaps, not as good but make up for this by eating more of it, and adding some meat. This could be the most cost effective way really, but to be honest, I hate legumes and pulses and won't touch them unless my life depended on it. Just a question of personal taste really

Check to see if your institution of education has a student co-op in bulk buying, or even a list of places that give students a discount. Even better, if you work for a green grocer or at a supermarket, you can get staff discounts or better still, free food due to natural stock turnover... this is one avenue worth exploring.

Godspeed, and happy HSTing

 

[[xeno]Julios]

Quote[/b] ]Are you lactose intolerant, by any chance? And if you are prepared to ignore the A2 controversy (www.a2corporation.com) then you might wish to indulge yourself with milk?

Yep - remember this thread? http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin....2;t=547

btw your cottage cheese/yoghurt suggestion is working out nicely - pepper is my condiment of choice

My diet consists of eggs, bananas, lots of rice (2 large bowls a day), almonds, grapes, a can of tuna mixed with plenty of plain yoghurt, half a pound of boneless skinless chicken breast (uncooked - $3.99 canadian a pound), half a kilo of frozen mixed vegetables. I also drink about 3-4 glasses of milk a day (used to have 8), and a glass of cottage cheese blended with yoghurt and water. I think i might take your suggestion and replace my second bowl of rice with potatoes. It's something I've been thinking of doing for a while - just have to find a tasty/simple way of making them.

Your suggestions on buying food are excellent - will look into those possibilities.

Thanks again man

 

[spartacus]

concentrating on staple foods and non-meat protein is a good way to keep costs down. milk, eggs, beans, peanuts/almonds, and tuna can help with cheap protein, especially compared to chicken breasts.

beans, oats, brown rice, bananas, potatoes, eggs and milk make up the bulk of my diet when i'm on a tight budget. also, costco or sams club can be quite useful.

 

[Dianabol]

Dear [xeno]Julios, spartacus,

Replying in specific:

1. My diet consists of eggs, bananas, lots of rice (2 large bowls a day), almonds, grapes, a can of tuna mixed with plenty of plain yoghurt, half a pound of boneless skinless chicken breast (uncooked - $3.99 canadian a pound), half a kilo of frozen mixed vegetables. I also drink about 3-4 glasses of milk a day (used to have 8), and a glass of cottage cheese blended with yoghurt and water. I think i might take your suggestion and replace my second bowl of rice with potatoes. It's something I've been thinking of doing for a while - just have to find a tasty/simple way of making them.

>>>> For some reason, I forgot the skanky tuna - cheap but oft disgusting source of protein In fact, I am toying with a recipe on making a tuna with potato.pasta au gratin but a fat-controlled, high protein-carb sort of thing. Add mashed cauliflower in place of potato and it becomes low-carb... we should have a HSR (Hypertrophy Specific Recipes) section here for the budding chefs

You could mash the potatoes, fashion them into little balls and roll them in egg white then bake them into crispy noisettes. This is time consuming though. Most often, I simply microwave the potatoes and add a dash of seasoned salt. This is quite boring though and microwaving makes the potatoe skin crunchy like it's raw... which to me is weird. I just might boil my spuds in bulk then flavour them as it amuses me. In fact, if you boiled your potatoes and sliced them transversely, they become scallops upon which a toss of cheese and grilling to golden perfection makes for a very delicious snack.

2. btw your cottage cheese/yoghurt suggestion is working out nicely - pepper is my condiment of choice

>>>> Glad you like this. Salt (and peppered...?) yoghurt drinks are hallmarks of Northern Indian cuisine and perhaps, middle eastern cuisine where yoghurt is drunk in place of milk. My favourite - mango lassi

3. concentrating on staple foods and non-meat protein is a good way to keep costs down. milk, eggs, beans, peanuts/almonds, and tuna can help with cheap protein, especially compared to chicken breasts. beans, oats, brown rice, bananas, potatoes, eggs and milk make up the bulk of my diet when i'm on a tight budget. also, costco or sams club can be quite useful.

>>>> Indeed, meat protein is on on the ever increase in price. You'd think we'd have cheaper meat as technology progresses but the reverse seems to be true. Tough cuts of meat from older animals can be bought quite cheaply - these are regarded as inferior but in fact, they are much more flavoursome and if cooked right (slow-roasted, casseroled etc) they are infinitely more tasty than meat from younger animals. The horrors of unscrupulous meat production is a nagging worry too. What am I really getting when I eat this steak....?

Costco and Sams Club must be specific to Canada. Canada is a nice place, from what I've read and heard

Godspeed, and happy HSTing