Introduction from an oldie/newbie

[Moonglum]

Hello everyone

First some details about me:

I am 41 yrs old and I am returning to training after many years off. During my time away from the gym I have predictably lost all that I once gained, going down from 12st to my previous untrained bodyweight of 10st.
I would classify myself as primarily an ectomorph (slim build, skinny wrists, naturally low bodyfat etc).

For around 10 years (late teens to late twenties) I trained using a HIT whole body routine on a 2-3 times a week basis and made some pretty good gains in strength and mass.

Now that we have the wonders of the internet, with its plethora of information, I have been busying myself doing alot of reading - both journal and informal articles - in an attempt to decide which routine would best suit me. I see that the old war of intensity vs volume still rages, but nevertheless out of this tangled mess of oftentimes conflicting information I have managed to gleam some elements of truth. For example, I no longer believe that training to failure (or beyond as I frequently did) is a requisite for stimulating growth and may even be counterproductive.

After much consideration I have decided to devote myself to HST. I am a scientist by profession, and I love the no-nonsense scientific approach that HST espouses.

My first question was going to be how best to go about progressing on exercises like the lat pulldown, where my 15RM is something like 40Kg but the stack only allows for increments of 5Kg, but I see this is covered in another thread, ie do 30x15x2sessions, 35x15x2sessions, then 40x15x2sessions - but what next - the 10's? Does 35x10x2sessions, 40x10x2sessions ,45x10x2sessions sound ok ?

I've just joined the local gym and am raring to go !!

I will keep you informed of my progress.

BTW is so-called muscle memory real or just anecdotal rubbish ? Over 10 years off is a large time-span but I was curious.

 

[imported_electric]

About the lat work think about doing chin-ups or pull-ups with body weight either assisted if bw is too much or weighted if bw is too low. I made the switch from cable pushdowns to chin-ups and I'm glad I did.
In any case you usually can add 2kg plates to the stack by passing the pin inside the plate or you can put a 2kg dumbell on top of the stack. Repeating weights as you mentioned is also an alternative.
Regarding muscle memory, I don't have hard evidence but I have noticed myself that after 5 years without lifting and restarting I got back (close) to my old weights with ease.

 

[faz]

ok pal

most lat-machines have some smaller plates that you can add on ask at the reception.
does muscle memory exist it seems to,although i dont beleive your muscles have memory

. good luck

 

[Moonglum]

Thanks for the reply guys

The Gym does have a weight assisted chinning/dipping station so I will start using that.

I was going to start out slowly and do just 2 sets each (15reps) of

1. Leg Press or Squat
2. Pulldowns (chins)
3. Dips
4. Dumbell shoulder press.

and 1 set each of dumbell curl and tri push downs done every other session.

I will also up my food intake.

Cheers

 

[Old and Grey]

I like the simplicity of your routine. You might consider alternating betweem squats and dead lifts and dips and bench presses.

An interesting question on muscle memory. It is definitely real. I just have never heard of any experience with how long the memory is good for. I suspect that the younger you were when you first starting working out, the longer the 'memory' because you were likely to experience hyperplasia then as well as hypertrophy. To my knowledge, hyperplasia cannot be be reversed under normal conditions so a younger starter would have more cells to experience future hypertrophy with. Just a guess on my part. No scientific studies behind it.

And, by the way Pup, 41 isn't old!

 

[quadancer]

I've read that the longer you were in the gym, the longer the "memory" (we have to call it something )
Moon: pullups come up pretty fast. Once you can do one, always grab swingsets, porch overhangs or wherever you can do a quick pullup or two, do so. You'll be surprised how quickly you may be doing full sets with added weight. But for your w.o. time, stay with the progression of your program. I've seen guys improve their bench by just doing the occasional inclined pushups. Especially for newbies; you gain strength from everything.
Welcome to HST.

 

[wannagrow]

Moonglum, welcome. Your routine looks solid and you're bound to make progress. Why not post a training log, I found it really useful.

 

[nkl]

Welcome Moonglum! I also like the routine you have.  

I have heard that doing SD early on when beginning training isn't all that necessary because you can continue to grow for quite a while. Just keep the load progressing until you can add more weight, persist some weeks and then SD. The SD is needed for repairing joints and being able to get better response from the lower load when beginning 15s again. In your case, as long as the weights are relatively light you might consider skipping the 15s and go for 10s directly. Everyone might not agree on this, but IMHO you will experience more growth when the load is heavier.

Edit: I'm not saying you must try to go for the 5s and post-5s to gain. There is nothing wrong with 15s and 10s. Just make sure the weight you use are effective as a growth stimulus (i.e., not too light). Going too heavy and the risk of injuries increases.

Just my .02

 

[navigator]

I suppose I'm one of the ones that disagrees ...

Moonglum just took a 10 -year SD and is brand new to HST; just now getting his theoretical understanding of HST up to par. I think he should use the exercises he's selected and perform a "proper" HST cycle as originally proposed by Bryan. Any strength gains will show up in the 5s, and he can extend the cycle for a couple more weeks, then SD again.

It is not the primary objective of HST to pound away week after week, trying to up one's strength in small increments. HST proposes that we expose our muscles to a tension which is steadily ramping upward over time, until our strength limits are reached. After a couple more weeks of additional 5s, or negatives, the loads become less effective as we become conditioned, so we SD to resensitize our muscles to lower loads again.

As I review the original HST principles, I see no long term benefit to skipping the 15s or working RM sets all the way through the 15s, or pounding away with 5RM weights weeks after week in hopes of strength increases. What draws people to HST is the hope of growing again, and with proper frequency and sensible volume, strength gains will surely come too.

 

[nkl]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Navigator. The HST principles are all-important (mechanical load, chronic stimuli, progressive load and SD), but as Bryan says, HST is a method. If we are not making small adjustments to accomodate for better adherence to the principles (due to the level of conditioning), we might miss the 'sweet spot' to effectively stimulate a hypertrophy response (you always get some stimulation - but how effective depends on the variables of the method).

I'm just saying that when you are new to training (or coming back after a time off) the gains should be coming in steady for quite a while due to poor conditioning. It's when the growth stalls that a SD make its magic work. This would mean that before this level of conditioning occurs the weight progression can continue, not neccessarily using 5s (or whatever the rep range).

And the SD does not need to be very long in the beginning, due to the level of conditioning you have gained (i.e., not so much if previously untrained as compared to when you have several years of training behind you). 7-9 days might be enough, while 10-14 days or more may be required for a trainee with a high level of conditioning.

What I am talking about is the first 2 or 3 cycles.

It is not wrong to follow vanilla HST to the letter, even for a previously untrained (detrained) individual. The load progression can take bigger jumps, yes, although at the beginning weights are very light. For example, if your 5RM for dumbell biceps curls are, say 15 kgs (33 lbs) then your beginning weight would be something like 8 kgs (18 lbs). It will still be close to 8 kgs next cycle because you have not increased your strength much during the initial cycle (unless you tried to add more load in the post-5s). The hope of growing again might not be realized until much later, when the poundages finally have increased (effective mechanical load).

 

[Moonglum]

Thaks for the great welcome all

I did my first w/o yesterday (above routine, 15s), and felt nicely worked afterwards. I'd forgotten what a pumped muscle feels like

I have DOMS today but it is only moderate stiffness.

Your advice on alternate/additional exercises makes sense - I will add in/alternate
incline BP and deadlift, either regular or stiff-legged, and maybe some type of rowing movement, once I have my body acclimated to the increased activity levels. I know to keep the volume down and stick mainly to the compounds so don't worry about me doing too may different exercises in one session.

Again - thanks for the warm welcome guys !!