Isolation

A

Affliction

New Member
I have decided to begin my first cycle of HST since my gains have come to a complete stop from my previous split routine.

Would it be a better idea to stick to just compound exercises or ould my gains suffer from not doing any isolation exercises?

The exercises that i was going to incorporate into my HST program were going to be just the main compound movements; alternating Squats and Deads every workout.

Squat (A)
Deadlift (B)
Flat Bench Press
Machine Rows
Shoulder Press
Lat Pulldown

Also would doing 1 set for 15s, 2 for 10s and 3 for 5s be optimal for the exercises i listed?
 
I agree, especially since it's your first cycle. I would not do rows in a machine though. Use a barbell and do them at a 90 degree angle and put the BB on the floor after each rep.
 
Alright thanks for the help, im going to base my routine around the big lifts, then maybe add 2 iso exercises so i have 7 or 8 exercises in total.

Im also going to take the advice and switch from machine rows to BB rows because they would likely be more effective.
 
Yeah, go with the bb rows. The load stays constant during the exercise unlike with a machine where friction messes with things a bit (especially the negative part of the movement). You can use under or over-grip but I would mainly go with an under-grip to put your biceps in their strongest position.

I stand on a raised platform to do rows as I like to get a good stretch in the lowered position but when the bar gets heavy it does get hard to hang on for the whole set. That's where Liege's advice would help as you could readjust your grip after each rep.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have decided to begin my first cycle of HST since my gains have come to a complete stop from my previous split routine.</div>

Well , about time, I'd say!
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Anyway routine looks good, I'd rather put in chins instead of lat pulldowns, as for the rows, that depends on the individual, I find BB bentover rows are good but alittle tough on the back with the vary heavy weights (for me that works out @ 80Kg or so!

I like to use some low cable rows and in the is case could disagree that tension varies, but that is quite irrelevant
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A simple workout is still the best in my humble opinion!
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(quote)

Also would doing 1 set for 15s, 2 for 10s and 3 for 5s be optimal for the exercises i listed

it depends on how much volume you were using before..but that is the basic recomendation
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and i agree with fausto about low-pulley rows less stress on your back especially if your doing squats or deadlifts,and you get a better squeeze and no jerking
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">and i agree with fausto about low-pulley rows less stress on your back especially if your doing squats or deadlifts</div>
That's what I do, too. I normally go with seated cable rows. Bent over BB rows can be a little hard on your back when you get to the heavy weights, and it makes it difficult to maintain the right posture and form. Same problem with a T-bar, too, when the weight is heavy it is nearly impossible to do it right.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Anyway routine looks good, I'd rather put in chins instead of lat pulldowns, as for the rows, that depends on the individual, I find BB bentover rows are good but alittle tough on the back with the vary heavy weights (for me that works out @ 80Kg or so!</div>

Yeah, Fausto's right, they are a little tough on the back, but isn't that the whole point?
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Well, compared to SLDLs they should be lighter and shouldn't be that tough on the lower back by comparison. However, it's probably not a good idea to hit them right after any form of deads or squats as your lower back will be pretty tired by then. Do some chest work and then come back to the rows or do them before any deads or squats.
 
Form is critical to maintaining a healthy lower back with barbell bent over rows. I find it easier, healthier and more effective to do one arm dumbell bent over rows with one leg supported on a bench. I can use much more weight to really work the lats and can hold the weight in the contracted muscle position easier. With barbell rows, my lower back becomes a weight limiting factor. There are bent over row machines available that allow one to take the stress off their back which work pretty good too.
 
I do my rows after squats. But I am only doing three exercises i.e., squats, bench and rows. I've never had a problem. It does help to have a strong lower back though.

If someone has been deadlifting for a while there wouldn't be an issue as long as proper form is used along with appropriate weight. Your deadlift should be double what you can row.
 
i've heard that it's best to &quot;deload&quot; after each rep of BB or DB Rows by letting the weight go to the ground, and readjust your grip. Does anyone here do this when they row?
 
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(Affliction @ Jun. 22 2006,00:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">i've heard that it's best to &quot;deload&quot; after each rep of BB or DB Rows by letting the weight go to the ground, and readjust your grip. Does anyone here do this when they row?</div>
Certainly for a 'proper' deadlift the load should be put back down on the floor and completely deloaded before continuing with the next rep. However, if you use lifting straps you might find that it's a pain to do that and you'll want to just pause briefly in the deloaded position without releasing your grip.

I guess the same thing would apply to bb or db rows? If your grip is giving up on you then a deload between reps might be a very useful way to keep working through the set. I reckon it's a good idea to try to build your grip strength by holding on for as many reps as you can before deloading and by not using straps except, perhaps, for your heaviest lifts like shrugs and deads (although a reverse grip will probably make them unnecessary).

My grip has improved hugely since I stopped using straps for all but the heaviest stuff I do. There's nothing more frustrating than having your grip go three-quarters of the way through a set of shrugs. It spoils my concentration. I'm trying to rely on them less and less but find they are still useful. I now try to get a set or two out before resorting to them.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I find it easier, healthier and more effective to do one arm dumbell bent over rows with one leg supported on a bench. I can use much more weight to really work the lats and can hold the weight in the contracted muscle position easier.</div>

I tend to agree with you O&amp;G, althoough I have not done them in a long while, when I did, 45 Kg p/arm was not too bad a deal,

I am sure that now I'll go even heavier, truth is doubling that into a BB row (90 Kg) I'll never doi it right, I'll end up straightening the back quite a bit, then I have lost form and the whole exercise becomes useless to me
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Then I'd be better off doing Deads of a rack and using proper weight! Just IMHO.
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I find my grip is starting to fail with heavy chins. Not that I can't hold on, its just that the skin on my fingers feel like its being compressed into paper and I lose circulation. My hands turn white and its a little uncomfortable. I CAN hold on but its the skin which causes the issue.
 
for grip strength use a thicker bar ,or put something around a bar to make it thicker this will make your grip much stronger
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(NeeBone @ Jun. 22 2006,04:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I find my grip is starting to fail with heavy chins. Not that I can't hold on, its just that the skin on my fingers feel like its being compressed into paper and I lose circulation. My hands turn white and its a little uncomfortable. I CAN hold on but its the skin which causes the issue.</div>
I had this problem for a while. I've torn callouses off my hands during chins and deads. Feels great. Gloves can help a bit, but i find them cumbersome... might work for you though.
 
Neebone

Get hold of some thick foam padding, the kind that is used on grips, then wrap around the bar, works for me.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I've torn callouses off my hands during chins and deads. Feels great.</div>

Gloves too, I wear them always, saves callouses, yeah Tot do I detect a bit of S&amp;M there
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I have gloves but I take them off for chins because the edge of the fingerless bit of them tend to dig into the creases of my fingers (the joint bit palm side).

Only tends to happen with the serious weight during the 5s. Will be my first ever negs work for chins next week. God help me! (baby powder tends to help somewhat - removes some of the friction when I start pulling myself up and the grip changes fractionally due to the load)
 
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(Affliction @ Jun. 21 2006,19:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">i've heard that it's best to &quot;deload&quot; after each rep of BB or DB Rows by letting the weight go to the ground, and readjust your grip. Does anyone here do this when they row?</div>
that is interesting!,
my knowledge is that this is good (very good) for strength ! maybe think about lifting deadlifts from the ground every single repetition is much heavier when not let the weight get to the bottom. try it, you will see !

But for bodybuilding i dont recomend to do this, because for hypertrophy your muscle is loaded longer (stretch,tut) when you dont get the weight to the ground.

that is my thinking about it, and i do it like this ! some other views about that point?

man i see, we have all the same shitty problems
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i dont like free rows with a longbar too....the hurting hands when the grip gets lower or hurting hands when doing chins, but i must say &quot;i like it after some years
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&quot;. gloves are nothing for me because my grip is worser with them unfortunatelly.
 
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