Keep bulking or cut?

I

intensum

New Member
Hey guys, first post here.

I'm 17 and I've lifted on and off for three years and really got my #### together June '05 and have been bulking since with CEE, whey, lean meats, and No-Xplode for pre-workout. Went from 150 lbs, 12% bf @ 5'11 to 193 lbs, 15% bf over that period (bf measured with gym calipers).

My specific measurements are:

Biceps 15"
Forearms 13"
Chest 42"
Neck 17"
Thighs 26"
Calves 16"
Shoulders 46"
...... Waist 37.5"
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Hah, back in June I was a 33" waist. I really wanted to continue to bulk but now using HST -- I know I would get some awesome results from it -- for the upcoming rugby season in February. But the waist growth could become a problem.

What would you advise? Start cutting now in the winter? If not, anyone got tips for careful bulking for people who tend to carry fat only on their middles?

Thanks a lot ;)
Warren
 
Thanks bro. I've always been a mesomorph, plus 5-8 pounds of that was probably from muscle memory.

Yeah, I put on a lot of muscle -- barely any fat can be pinched from my arms, shoulders, chest or legs -- but all the fat goes straight to my middle. Again: 33" to 38".

To cut I would continue the HST I started two days ago (15s-12s-9s), focus on compound exercises, and lift MWF and do 40 mins of brisk walking on incline treadmill SMTWTFS. And caloric deficit, 193g protein daily, take Omega 3s for my EFAs, and keep the carbs low (gradually reintroduce them to my diet after I'm done cutting).

Or should I just continue with the HST on a caloric surplus (~500 cals over)? Right now I get about 30% of my cals from protein, 50% from carbs (80% of those carbs are complex), and 20% from fat. If I kept this up, I would probably have to go crazy on the crunches and situps to avoid buying new pants.

What do you guys think?

Warren
 
If you're at 15%, cut. Take it down to 10% or so.  You don't want to end your next cycle at 18% BF. Also, how did you determine your BF levels?
 
Well, it's a matter of personal preference, I think. Do you want to get bigger an any cost? Then you could continue bulking. Or does the fat around the midsection bother you a lot? Then maybe it's time to cut.

Ultimately, it's your call. Do what you need to do in order to be happy with yourself and your body.

Personally, I'd start cutting now. But then, again, this is just me. Congrats on your gains! :)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Conciliator @ Dec. 06 2005,2:05)]If you're at 15%, cut. Take it down to 10% or so.  You don't want to end your next cycle at 18% BF.  Also, how did you determine your BF levels?
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A personal trainer at my gym (Gold's) used calipers to measure my BF levels.

Thanks for the advice.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (9to5lifter @ Dec. 06 2005,2:59)]Well, it's a matter of personal preference, I think. Do you want to get bigger an any cost? Then you could continue bulking. Or does the fat around the midsection bother you a lot? Then maybe it's time to cut.
Ultimately, it's your call. Do what you need to do in order to be happy with yourself and your body.
Personally, I'd start cutting now. But then, again, this is just me. Congrats on your gains!  :)
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Thanks man. :)
 
Personally, I would probably keep bulking. Cutting over the winter months just sucks, and I personally would be excited to see how far I could go growth wise.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Totentanz @ Dec. 06 2005,7:43)]Personally, I would probably keep bulking.  Cutting over the winter months just sucks, and I personally would be excited to see how far I could go growth wise.
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Yeah. If it were February now then I would have no doubt about cutting.
If waist growth is the only problem I have with bulking, what would you guys recommend to offset that? Very high volume, high rep, low weight oblique and ab work every other day? Incorporate 40 min. incline treadmill on off days? Back off a bit on the hypercaloric diet and bulk more gradually?
Thanks again for all the input.
 
You're talking about spot reduction now, which isn't going to happen. If you lose fat, you lose it systemically and in a genetically predetermined order. Crunches will not take the fat off of your stomach. Nor will high volume, low rep, low weight training do anything significant for your fat loss while on a bulk.

This is because talk about "offsetting" your stomach while on a bulk is basically saying lose fat (stomach) and gain muscle (keep bulking) at the same time. Unless your new to lifting or using drugs, it's one or the other. If your bulking and have a hypercaloric diet, you're going to get fatter and your stomach is going to get bigger. If you're cutting and on a hypocaloric diet, you can lose fat and your stomach will get smaller.

So it's either continue bulking with a decent hypercaloric diet for growth, and stomach gets bigger, or start cutting with a decent hypocaloric diet for fat loss, and stomach gets smaller. No special training is going to keep the fat from accumulating on your stomach while on a hypercaloric diet.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Conciliator @ Dec. 06 2005,11:42)]You're talking about spot reduction now, which isn't going to happen.  If you lose fat, you lose it systemically and in a genetically predetermined order.  Crunches will not take the fat off of your stomach.  Nor will high volume, low rep, low weight training do anything significant for your fat loss while on a bulk.
This is because talk about "offsetting" your stomach while on a bulk is basically saying lose fat (stomach) and gain muscle (keep bulking) at the same time. Unless your new to lifting or using drugs, it's one or the other.  If your bulking and have a hypercaloric diet, you're going to get fatter and your stomach is going to get bigger. If you're cutting and on a hypocaloric diet, you can lose fat and your stomach will get smaller.
So it's either continue bulking with a decent hypercaloric diet for growth, and stomach gets bigger, or start cutting with a decent hypocaloric diet for fat loss, and stomach gets smaller.  No special training is going to keep the fat from accumulating on your stomach while on a hypercaloric diet.
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Good point, Conciliator. Some twenty minutes after I had made my last post I read about the misconception of spot reduction. Like you said, either bulk and deal with the fat, or cut and deal with not growing.

I am, however, pretty new to lifting. When I said "lifting on and off" for the past few years, I meant only misguided, half-assed, infrequent isolation exercises for chest and biceps. I only started seriously lifting on a committed, full-body regimen last June, and I'm clearly past that glorious stage of newbie gains.

Maybe the timing will be right and I can limit my stomach growth. Maybe not. In any case I'm just gonna do a 6x/week HST cycle and eat 30% protein 50% carbs 20% fat from EFA for a hypercaloric diet, and start cutting in January.
 
Yeah, getting over 15% bodyfat may not be desirable even if it is in winter. You could possibly cut now, bulk in early spring, and cut before summer.
 
So, I went to the personal trainer again today and apparently I overestimated my bf%. I'm at 12.9% now, so I could have answered my question just by doing that. I'll keep bulking till February or March.

Thanks for all the help guys
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Bulking vs Cutting - for a 17 year old

I can't imagine this type of discussion. You should be able to workout like a darned machine, sweat like a hog, and move from exercise to exercise just about as fast as you can walk to the next machine or weight. Recovery should be practically non-existent for you.

If you're getting too darn fat, you're not pushing yourself hard enough between sets and exercises. A workout for someone your age should be darned near aerobic. You should be hard as rock and your body should be very well defined.

Forget the cutting, if you're not sweating and breathing hard your workouts are not vigorous enough. At your age you should push the limits, your body should handle it well.

Set your spacing between reps at about 10-30 seconds max, and move directly and start new exercises. In other words...superset your workouts. The fat should fall off you, you should be ripped within a couple months.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (domineaux @ Dec. 07 2005,11:38)]If you're getting too darn fat, you're not pushing yourself hard enough between sets and exercises. A workout for someone your age should be darned near aerobic. You should be hard as rock and your body should be very well defined.
Forget the cutting, if you're not sweating and breathing hard your workouts are not vigorous enough.  At your age you should push the limits, your body should handle it well.  
Set your spacing between reps at about 10-30 seconds max, and move directly and start new exercises. In other words...superset your workouts.  The fat should fall off you, you should be ripped within a couple months.
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I'm really going to have to disagree with such a generalized prescription.  If he's getting fat, it means he's consuming more calories than he's burning, which is exactly what he should be doing if he's bulking. To pin it on training intensity is way off the mark.  It has nothing to do with whether his workouts are aerobic or not, as the extra calories burned from a more intense session mean nothing in light of the caloric surplus of a bulk.  Further, even teenagers have intensity limits. He should train according to his recovery capacity and not "push the limits" into overtraining territory.  If he wants to lose fat, he should go on a cut, reducing calories to fewer than he's burning. That'll take the fat off, not shorter rest periods.
 
This is a discussion forums.

I see no point of arguing on issues like this.

I made my observation, and took the time to explain it. If the thread originator takes it under advisement or Not, so be it.

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (domineaux @ Dec. 08 2005,12:21)]This is a discussion forums.
I see no point of arguing on issues like this.
I made my observation, and took the time to explain it. If the thread originator takes it under advisement or Not, so be it.
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domineaux, I'm with conciliator... and don't take any offense from his post. Just because someone is younger, doesn't mean their body is invisible to overtraining. The muscles of a 17 year old have to recover, breakdown, and grow just like a 27, 37, or 47 year olds would (maybe with slightly better efficiency.) I'm three years older than him and just like every single person, if I need to shed some fat, I shouldn't as eating as much, make sure what I eat is right, have a good weight training program like HST, and throw some cardio in.

As far as supersetting goes, that's fine and dandy. I do it, but I still take a minutes rest between consecutive sets of a given exercise. I just don't want him to get the right idea where he will overtrain, eat too less, and lose muscle - it happened to me last spring.

-Colby
 
Overtraining...where did that creep into this discussion.

This guy just wanted to know if he should cut. When I look at his bodyfat % and the guy is sweating whether to cut or Not. It's a no brainer, IMO.

Eat like a horse, and workout like an ox. The fat will fly away post haste, especially at that level of bodyfat %.

Me thinks analysis can be paralysis. You'll have to probably overlook my candor guys. I believe in doing what a workout means... WORK. Work means sweat, some pain, lots of heart rate elevation, and shortness of breath.

If you don't agree with me, nor I you it's fine with me. The poster will in the end make his/her own decision anyway.

Happy Thursday to all
 
Oh well, in that regards when it comes to the actual workout itself as long you have ample break time between consecutive sets of a given exercise, superset (or not), have enough energy stores before hand, stretch, warm-up, have good form, do metabolic sets, customize the routine, and work like an animal without hitting failure then you should be able to grow. What determines the amount of growth and the loss or gain of fat is one's diet.
 
Domineaux, I hear you. It's easy to get caught up in the theory and when instead you should be acting, testing, doing trial and error the real way. You get out and DO if you want progress.

In my defense, though, I push myself really dang hard every workout, and always have. I maybe arrogantly assumed ;) that would be a given in a topic that, from the start, primarily addresses diet (and starts off with a background that shows my effort). I wanted advice about the timing for tweaking my diet.

Sall good, though. I'm bulking cuz I had underestimated my metabolism. Thanks again bros :D
 
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