Leaving out squats entirely

M

mphowells

New Member
Hi,

This will be my 3rd HST and for the last 2 I have followed the same exercises. I've just moved gyms and notice 2 distinct problems

1 - the squat rack is poor and the safety bars are welded in place - far too high up.

2 - the ceiling is so low, standing militery press is not possible.

With those factors in mind how does this look:

Deadlift
Bench
Row
Seated dumbell press
Chins
Dips

Prob will add something extra in there for arms as I feel they need the focus.

Would deadlifts be enough for legs and am I being a fool not a least trying to use the sh*t squat rack (it is being replaced…apparently)?

Thanks
 
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(mphowells @ Jan. 18 2008,10:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hi,

This will be my 3rd HST and for the last 2 I have followed the same exercises. I've just moved gyms and notice 2 distinct problems

1 - the squat rack is poor and the safety bars are welded in place - far too high up.

2 - the ceiling is so low, standing militery press is not possible.

With those factors in mind how does this look:

Deadlift
Bench
Row
Seated dumbell press
Chins
Dips

Prob will add something extra in there for arms as I feel they need the focus.

Would deadlifts be enough for legs and am I being a fool not a least trying to use the sh*t squat rack (it is being replaced…apparently)?

Thanks</div>
Your legs aren't going to be very stimulated by deadlifts alone. I would try to at least do bodyweight squats or...something.
 
I agree with mikeynov. I tried that route once, just doing deads and rack pulls without squats. My hamstrings got trained, but my quadriceps lagged. One-legged split squats are pretty hard even just holding dumbells.
 
I do front squat with the same weight I do overhead press and bent row. It ain't much but it's a full squat so the load is greater than the bar indicates. If you can power clean 40kg, you can do front squat. Add the power clean while you're at it.

An alternative is to take an extra wide grip on the deadlift and begin the deadlift with the same position as you would on the snatch. The snatch starting position is basically a squat. As with any new exercise, start with a light weight to learn the motion and graduate to heavy weights when your technique is adequate.

For the overhead press, you could use the empty bar to maintain the shoulders loose and ready for when you can do it with full size plates in the future.
 
If I were in your situation I would do either front squats or DB lunges. I plan on doing these in future cycles. Another interesting move is a goblet squat. Sometimes when circumstances are not favorable to what we want to do we're forced to come up with a creative solution that ends up benefiting us more than what we had planned. Go with the flow and make the best of a bad situation. You may surprise yourself with the results.
 
you guys have seen my homemade power rack in the home equipment section. There are technically no safety bars, unless I count the pins that I could fall forward into...yet I squat all kinds of weights in front of it. Points are, HST is mostly submax and if you really have to abort, the floor is always there to catch the weight. Just don't be under it when it goes down, that's all.
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(il_dottore @ Jan. 19 2008,05:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You don't have to use maximal weights so you don't really need safety bars in the power rack</div>
I agree. Use weights you know you wont fail on. Its better than not doing squats at all.
At my gym we do not have any powerrack at all.
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I have adapted and can train heavy anyway. I just need to stop when form starts to decline and I get the feeling that I am not sure I will make next rep. Sometimes when I do want to &quot;go for it&quot; I have someone watch me.
I have also practiced on &quot;failing&quot; by myself so I know how to react if it should happen when I dont count on it.
I know now that if I fail on rising up, I can always go back down to ATG with full control, stay there, and then &quot;throw&quot; the bar behind me, it happened to me, once. I was glad then that I had practiced.
 
Some great replies, thanks. So even if I deside to walk out of the rack and do the squats is it really realistic to do both deads and squats in one program? I understand that I can split things into A &amp; B routines but would like to avoid that for no other reason than I've done just that previously and fancy a change.

Any thoughts? You think squats would be more beneficial than deads in a program?

Thanks
 
I reckon doing front squats will be a nice change from back squats if you haven't done them before. You could try doing deads off a slight platform so that you hit your quads more.

As for deads and squats, I'd do both rather than one over the other. Front squats and deads in the same session would be doable. You could start out with deads and finish with front squats or vice versa. Front squats won't be too hard if you have to clean the weight first. Just don't get too fatigued as it makes it hard to put it down nicely!
 
I like (for now) to alternate them, and my strengths have come up pretty well. Korte's 3x3 program has you doing both every session all the way into competition. But it's also just that and bench, so you're not burning out. Here we do so much else, or most of you guys do, that both would be an overload on the CNS, even though they're different exersizes.
Still, I've done them both up into the fives, when I split them up.
 
If you are worried about squats &amp; deads in the same session changing deads to rack pulls is one alternative.
 
I often do deadlifts to the exclusion of squats - and my quadriceps are visibly lagging. Not badly, but noticeably.

In my case, it's a combination of practicality (I do a lot more deadlift-type things outside of the gym than back-squat type things) and the fact that my spine protrudes just a little bit right where I'm supposed to be resting the damn bar, making back squats unbearably painful before I get anywhere near the kind of weight I should be using.

If you want to add some balance for your quads, though, I'd integrate front squats. Do them with a clean grip as opposed to the bodybuilder grip, and you'll be able to dump the bar harmlessly into your own body if you get stuck. It's hard to explain, but I just let the bar down in a sort of reverse-hang-clean and absorb the shock by softly receiving it at the top of my thighs - using a sort of knee-and-waist bend that looks like you've just been punched hard in the stomach.

Practice that with a light weight before relying on it with a heavy one. It negates the need for a safety rack or big rubber platform, but would probably hurt pretty bad if you didn't get used to the catching motion (out of both a standing position and your sticking point) before going heavy.

Front squats actually put a greater proportional emphasis on the quads than back squats, and you don't need as much weight to hit your limit on them. So they're definitely worth considering.

~~~

Other (saner) possibility:

Hack squats - with a barbell.

Hackenshmidt1903.jpg


That's Georg Hackenschmidt, the guy who invented them back around the beginning of the 20th century. He was a genetic freak of nature, but he certainly had some well-developed quads.

Barbell hack squats are kinda like a behind-the-legs deadlift, but they (like the front squat) put a lot more of an emphasis on the quadriceps relative to the gluteus maximus.
 
No reason to eliminate squats as you can see, either use alternative options or simply change the gym, they may give you crap one day when you are doing some heavy deadlifts and tell you that it is anatomically wrong yadayadayada.
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