lifting vs contracting muscle

I ve been hearing lectures that when you lift you need to feel your muscles contract and force the to contract enable to gain hypertrophy. Some people just lift and concentrate on pushing the weight up, which is not hypertrophy.

What does this mean? Does this I mean I should have slower form? When I am doing my 5s at max, I dont really concentrate on anything but lifting the weight to 5 reps. what about u guys?
 
i have heard the same (i believe mentzer was big on that).

it takes a while to figure out how to do it properly for each exercise, but it does tire you out easier and makes it so you cant use as much weight.

try concentrating on your form and purposely using the muscle you are intending to hit (this happens anyway, but seems to hit it harder when you purpose try to use a specific muscle). the easiet way to do this is to flex it throughout the movement. try it with your next bicep exercise, that is the easiet one to do it on (imo).

i have heard that load is more important from some vet members of this forum, but i am not sure if this is necessarily true. the pump is a lot greater when specifically trying to use the muscle.

at what point are you compromising form? as long as the motion is correct? or is it when you are not doing everything you can to fatigue the muscle properly?



i wish i could be more help as to the effects, but im not sure myself. i usually do a mixture, where i flex the muscle during the exercise in the begining of each mini cycle, expecially in the 15s.
 
I don't think it matters.  When the load is heavy, you might not "feel" as much contraction, but it doesn't make much of a difference.  I can contract my biceps hard with no weight a bunch of times and get a nice pump, but that doesn't mean I'll grow.  The load is more important I believe.  So go heavy without sacrificing form, but you don't neccessarily need to feel the contraction on everything.  This might be a good technique for metabolic work though, so it's not useless, but it shouldn't be the mainstay of your training in my opinion.
 
IMHO - the main thing is to use the best form you can when lifting.

I you sacrifice form to lift heavier you either:

1 - Hurt yourself and loose a lot of time trying to heal-up to start again.

2 - Don't get proper contraction and engagement of the muscle you targetting rendering the exercise useless ( a good example would be bent over rows where the weight is so heavy that the subject ends up straightening himself so that he is almost straight up rather than bent over, thus loosing the effect on the lats and transefring it to the back, shoulders, traps, but not in a efficient manner at all!)

Some coaches will even get a guy to lift very light for a while just so the subject gets the hang of the exercise!
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You are going to get hypertrophy when lifting a heavy weight whether you feel your muscle contracting or not.
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Apr. 15 2006,19:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You are going to get hypertrophy when lifting a heavy weight whether you feel your muscle contracting or not.</div>
exactly
 
As Bryan said in the FAQ:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The first week of 5's should be slow on the way down but still pretty explosive on the way up. Then as the weight nears your 5 rep max you will have no real control over how fast you move the weight. It will generally go slow simply because it is so heavy.</div>

My take on the 'voluntary tension' thing is that all you are effectively doing is expending extra nervous energy firing off muscular contraction in an antagonistic muscle as well as the working muscle. Taking the biceps curl as an example: as the weight is raised the tension on the biceps muscle varies as the angle of the arm (and therefore length of biceps) changes. If plotted, this variation in tension would be a curve where the point of maximum tension would be about midway through the curl. If you were to voluntarily contract your biceps during the concentric part of a curl, you would effectively be flattening this curve somewhat. This would equate with extending the peak tension for a bit longer during each concentric part of a rep. For the eccentric part it would be similar but you would really just be expending extra nervous energy slowing the descent down more. Seems daft to me as it's not a measurable amount of extra tension. Why not just use a heavier weight in the first place?

So I'm with wwewrestlingguy. If you are able to do full squats with over 500lbs for 5s then however the heck you do them you will be big and strong.
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(of course if you do them with sloppy form you might also be dead
biggrin.gif
) If you do a drop set and 'voluntarily contract' all you like at the end of some heavy 5s you will be covering both hypertrophy bases.
 
I read many good comments in this thread so I figured I would throw in my 2 cents.

It’s easy to oversimplify things, especially when we’re dealing with something inherently complicated.

This thread began with a question concerning the validity of the claim that only slow muscle contractions elicit hypertrophy. In my opinion the claim is forcing the stimulus for growth into a single variable…contraction speed.

Now, even all other variables are kept constant, the claim still doesn’t hold water. If it did, the method known as “Super Slow” would produce the most rapid gains in muscle size. In fact, the effects of Super Slow follow a well known principle of exercise physiology know as the Specificity principle. Simply put, any adaptation that occurs as a result of exercise will be specific to the nature of the stimulus. In our case, if the specificity principle is correct, super slow should result first and foremost in an improvement in ones ability to lift weights slowly.

Nevertheless, a recent study (Effects of low-intensity resistance exercise with slow movement and tonic force generation on muscular function in young men. J Appl Physiol. 2006 Apr;100(4):1150-7.) demonstrated hypertrophy from 12 weeks of 3 sec up/1 sec pause/3 second down training using ~50% 1RM in previously untrained subjects. In fact, for these newbies, the growth was about the same as the group that used a more traditional weight load and rep speed (~80% 1RM 1sec up/1 sec down).

So where does that bring us? Is it all about rep speed or not? Well, I would have to say “not”. With untrained subjects, very little weight loads will induce hypertrophy simply because there is no previous adaptation or repeated bout effect. Interestingly, other research has clearly demonstrated that, contrary to our previous study, higher weight loads are required for significant increases in muscle hypertrophy (Muscular adaptations in response to three different resistance-training regimens: specificity of repetition maximum training zones. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Nov;88(1-2):50-60.).

And as for rep speed, a very compelling paper has demonstrated the superiority of higher rep speeds for inducing hypertrophy (Short-term high- vs. low-velocity isokinetic lengthening training results in greater hypertrophy of the elbow flexors in young men.
J Appl Physiol. 2005 May;98(5):1768-76.
) The growth demonstrated in this study was significantly higher in the fast rep (eccentric) speed despite a 10 fold higher time-under-tension in the slow rep speed group.

Ok, I realize I’m going on and on with this and probably boring many of you. So let me conclude by saying that although rep speed is an issue, I would say that peak tension as well as over all volume is more important to hypertrophy than simply rep speed.

I guess I could’ve just said that in the first place.
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I've tried super slow, that's an accurate descripton of your strength and size gains on the program.
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Look at the upper backs of olympic lifters. Not to mention the overall mass of any moderate to advanced powerlifter.
 
Very interesting Bryan.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">And as for rep speed, a very compelling paper has demonstrated the superiority of higher rep speeds for inducing hypertrophy (Short-term high- vs. low-velocity isokinetic lengthening training results in greater hypertrophy of the elbow flexors in young men.
J Appl Physiol. 2005 May;98(5):1768-76.) The growth demonstrated in this study was significantly higher in the fast rep (eccentric) speed despite a 10 fold higher time-under-tension in the slow rep speed group</div>

thats cool, i know this is anectodal but iv never seen a big guy who lifts slow, and most of the big guys I see in the gym lift explosively, good stuff. Its more fun doing explosive reps anyway!
 
<div>
(Bryan Haycock @ Apr. 17 2006,20:38)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I read many good comments in this thread so I figured I would throw in my 2 cents.

It’s easy to oversimplify things, especially when we’re dealing with something inherently complicated.

This thread began with a question concerning the validity of the claim that only slow muscle contractions elicit hypertrophy. In my opinion the claim is forcing the stimulus for growth into a single variable…contraction speed.

Now, even all other variables are kept constant, the claim still doesn’t hold water. If it did, the method known as “Super Slow” would produce the most rapid gains in muscle size. In fact, the effects of Super Slow follow a well known principle of exercise physiology know as the Specificity principle. Simply put, any adaptation that occurs as a result of exercise will be specific to the nature of the stimulus. In our case, if the specificity principle is correct, super slow should result first and foremost in an improvement in ones ability to lift weights slowly.

Nevertheless, a recent study (Effects of low-intensity resistance exercise with slow movement and tonic force generation on muscular function in young men. J Appl Physiol. 2006 Apr;100(4):1150-7.) demonstrated hypertrophy from 12 weeks of 3 sec up/1 sec pause/3 second down training using ~50% 1RM in previously untrained subjects. In fact, for these newbies, the growth was about the same as the group that used a more traditional weight load and rep speed (~80% 1RM 1sec up/1 sec down).

So where does that bring us? Is it all about rep speed or not? Well, I would have to say “not”. With untrained subjects, very little weight loads will induce hypertrophy simply because there is no previous adaptation or repeated bout effect. Interestingly, other research has clearly demonstrated that, contrary to our previous study, higher weight loads are required for significant increases in muscle hypertrophy (Muscular adaptations in response to three different resistance-training regimens: specificity of repetition maximum training zones. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Nov;88(1-2):50-60.).

And as for rep speed, a very compelling paper has demonstrated the superiority of higher rep speeds for inducing hypertrophy (Short-term high- vs. low-velocity isokinetic lengthening training results in greater hypertrophy of the elbow flexors in young men.
J Appl Physiol. 2005 May;98(5):1768-76.
) The growth demonstrated in this study was significantly higher in the fast rep (eccentric) speed despite a 10 fold higher time-under-tension in the slow rep speed group.

Ok, I realize I’m going on and on with this and probably boring many of you. So let me conclude by saying that although rep speed is an issue, I would say that peak tension as well as over all volume is more important to hypertrophy than simply rep speed.

I guess I could’ve just said that in the first place.
biggrin.gif
</div>
it makes sense that super slow rep speed makes little difference, but what about purposely flexing a muscle while doing an exercise?

i notice that if i purposly use a muscle (by flexing it throughout the motion) it gets tired out easier and feels more pumped post workout.

i am assuming that load is still the primary factor and tiring it our by flexing it wont really help, but i wanted to hear your input on it.
 
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