Lol's New HST Log

[Lol]

I can't figure out the difference b/t "Kroc" and DB rows. From what I can gather, calling it a "Kroc row" means more body language (and for some reason higher reps). My form isn't perfectly strict, but doing it with perfectly strict reduces the ROM. I'd categorise it as 'strict' within the context of full-ROM. I also place my hand on a chair back, which is noticeably higher than a bench height would be, but for leverage purposes (which in turn means ROM purposes) I'll deem it "correct".

I don't understand why they do high-reps with them. Attraction to numb forearms perhaps. High-rep DB rows leave me with greater DOMS than low-reps, so I leave the high-rep back work to chins or other 2-handed exercise.

Something I want to do is do one handed T-Bar rows, probably reliant on a VersaGripp (/straps). I think that would be an incredibly effective exercise and have far greater ROM than anything DB Row style. Step 1 is get new BB, step 2 is figure out a to build a socket/something to lock it into the floor. The Olympic bars available (at least here) don't have enough on the end to stack O-plates, so it would need to be standard-weights. Ironically it would make v.good use of the big-diameter, slim-thickness 20kg plates I have. I figure I could get 6 or 7 of them on the end w/no dramas.

Also, @ Totentanz - hell yes you should do these.

"Krocs" are named after Matt Kroczaleski who made heavy, high-rep db rows popular when he said that his deadlift improved from doing them regularly. I like the name so I use it but, yes, exactly the same as saying "unilateral db rows". I think any body language is down to the individual really. I always think about flaring my lats as I squeeze the db off the floor; I also hold it temporarily in the top, contracted-lats, position, when the db contacts my lower-chest/upper-abs area. I guess body language will probably increase a bit as the load goes up.

Whatever you want to call them, they're a great exercise.

Haha!

 

[Sci]

I have considered DB Rows, the only thing stopping me is the limited weight at the gym. Actually my buddy's been doing the hammer strength rows at the gym and he swears they are one if the best back machines, I may try to switch it up, although cable rows go to 260, so I have a ways to go still before I max out that machine.

 

[_tim]

I watched a vid quite a while back where Matt defined his "Kroc Rows" as any rep count at or above 25. Having trained with these for an extended amount of time - I can second the whole assertion that the work translates nicely to deadlifting gains and overall grip and back strength. I still would kill to have Alex's current cluster strength with DB rows - or to be damn near any of Lol's current work set totals on any of the stuff he does.

 

[Lol]

I watched a vid quite a while back where Matt defined his "Kroc Rows" as any rep count at or above 25. Having trained with these for an extended amount of time - I can second the whole assertion that the work translates nicely to deadlifting gains and overall grip and back strength. I still would kill to have Alex's current cluster strength with DB rows - or to be damn near any of Lol's current work set totals on any of the stuff he does.

Ah, yes, 25 reps. Good call, Tim. I must have seen that vid some time ago too. IIRC, the thing with Mr Kroc's reps though was that his ROM wasn't great because the db he was using was so obscenely large and unwieldy. I wonder what his TUT was for his 25 reps? I might see if I can check that vid again and compare it with how long it takes me to do a set of 15 reps with my (by comparison) teeny db's.

Interestingly, my back isn't noticeably sore at all today from the Kroc rows, whereas my anterior delts and pecs definitely are from the dips. I put that down to the fact that a lot of the work I do involves my entire back and medial/rear delts, either directly or indirectly. All the Oly lifting I do works my back quite hard. I haven't been doing anything very much for my chest and anterior delts.

For a bit of extra TUT, it's quite "fun" to do trap/lat/rhomboid pulses at the end of a set of Krocs. They feel really good with a heavy db.

 

[Jester]

I'm sure any high-rep work helps for grip strength-endurance.

I spent all weekend talking myself into one-arm rows using a BB in a similar fashion to T-Bar rows. Am going away for a month shortly to do some training for work, won't attempt it at the gym there but am absolutely going to figure it out once I return.

 

[Lol]

Thu 25/04/13

I've been installing a new back-to-wall loo with concealed cistern today which turned out to be a pain in the parts, plus I didn't get it all done. I missed my evening training session so I couldn't slam any bars tonight. I hate doing nothing so I did a few bits n bobs while my dinner was heating up.

General Warmup
Shoulder dislocates & OHS with wooden pole
Nekid bar muscle snatches

Power-snatch off High-blocks
5 x 20kg
5 x 30kg
5 x 30kg
5 x 40kg
5 x 40kg

All with straps.
Mainly good reps. Getting my breathing sorted. Wrists feeling a bit bruised and sore. Had to be very careful not to dump the bar and wake people up so no heavier attempts. Threw in a few OHS's here and there.

Kroc Rows
15 x 51kg (112lb)

Only time for one set. I'm pretty sure these felt harder than they did yesterday. Probably a bit of fatigue. Maybe it was also because I didn't do any warm-up sets.

Dinner!

 

[Totentanz]

I'm sure any high-rep work helps for grip strength-endurance.

I spent all weekend talking myself into one-arm rows using a BB in a similar fashion to T-Bar rows. Am going away for a month shortly to do some training for work, won't attempt it at the gym there but am absolutely going to figure it out once I return.

I'd like to hear how that works out.

 

[Jester]

Well, unfortunately I won't be able to get into it for about 5weeks or so. But it's on my mind now. It's essentially maneuvering a (quite large) lever. I always liked T-Bar rows, there's a really natural feeling to it.

I also need to do some measurements and make sure I could load one end of the std BB up high enough for it to be viable, figure out a way to cap/socket the other end of the bar etc.

 

[Lol]

I like the idea of a unilateral T-bar too. I've been toying with some ideas for a weighted lever: it could be used for pulling in one direction and for pushing in the other. It shouldn't be too hard to construct something to fit in a rack. The lever would be positioned (when required) close to a rack upright post, pivoting at just-above-ground level; you would be in a standing position to use it, bracing yourself against a rack upright. It would only require one pulley for the loading to be applied to the handle at 90º to vertical. Not a great explanation. If I figure out how to build it, I'll take some pics.

I've tried single arm T-bar rows with a loaded O-bar and they're not ideal.

 

[Jester]

In case it isn't clear when I say 'T-Bar', I mean gripping the BB and not one side of an attached bar (ofc).

My issue would be finding a way to socket the back end of the BB.

 

[Lol]

@Alex: Yeah, I know what you mean. There's a thingy you can get, eg:

https://www.strengthshop.co.uk/equipment-and-bars/miscellaneous/t-platform.html

=========

I finally got around to making my parallel-grip chinning thingy which fits into the top of my rack. I can change the spacing between the handles very easily. It's literally a few bits of timber bolted together. Works just fine and is easy to attach when needed. Did 17 bodyweight reps for my first test run. Feels great. No forearm issue at all when pulling from a dead-hang which is where chins get me. So it looks like I can add these back into my training once I'm sure the timber can safely take my weight plus a pile of extra kgs.

Away from base for a few days again so training will be whatever I can do.

 

[Jester]

Cheers for the link mate, but here's my reaction...



...60 pounds!!!!?!?!??!?!

Am going to see if I can't build one out of pipe and something.

 

[Lol]

Cheers for the link mate, but here's my reaction...



...60 pounds!!!!?!?!??!?!

Am going to see if I can't build one out of pipe and something.

Haha! Didn't expect you to buy one. I just stuff the bar in the corner of the room but I don't have to care about the walls: rubber mats on floor and bits of rubber mat on each wall hold the end of the bar in place. It can't go anywhere.

 

[Lol]

Sat 27/04/13

At the end of a long day of bricklaying, I got a chance to do a workout in my bro's garage. He has an O-bar, some weights, squat stands and a bench plus he's rigged up a pull-up bar (large diameter) and he has my rings set-up for dipping. I gave him two York 10kg rubber bumpers a while ago as all his weights are non-standard sizes (all smaller than 45cm dia.). There wasn't a lot of room so I decided against an Oly workout in case I had to dump the bar.

General Warmup
Broom handle shoulder dislocates
Air Squats
Power cleans: 10 x 40kg, 10 x 60kg
High-pull: 5 x 60kg

Deadlift
5 x 100kg (220lb)
5 x 130kg (284lb)
5 x 140kg (308lb)
5 x 150kg (331lb)
5 x 160kg (353lb) + static hold 2" off floor before putting bar down after last rep
1 x 165kg (364lb)
2 x 165kg (364lb)
3 x 165kg (364lb) + static hold 2" off floor before putting bar down after last rep

Oly shoes; hook-grip.

At 165kg I was using all the weights that were there. 5 x 160kg was hard but ok then adding an extra 5kg seemed to mess with my head. The first rep seemed much too difficult so I took a quick breather and tried again... two more reps and stopped again. Got annoyed and banged out another three. I decided that that was enough as my lower-back was taking a lot of the strain. Oly shoes definitely make deadlifting tougher but I think I was quite tired and hadn't eaten much that day.

At that point I was ready to call it quits and go and eat but then I decided to do a few more things first...

Pull-ups
11 x BW - just missed the 12th rep.

I figured I wouldn't get much over 5 reps so soon after deadlifting but managed to get past 10. That tells me something about my deads: think my form was a bit off such that I was throwing more weight onto my lower back than I should have been. My lats def weren't as fatigued as usual.

Ring Dips
10 x BW + 5, 5, 3, 3

Palms facing in towards sides. Did these as a Myo-rep set. Haven't done anything on rings in a long time so these were really tough. Much more intense on the pecs than my regular dips on bars.

Ab "Rock Out" on Rings
10 x BW
5 x BW
5 x BW

Not sure what to call these? Standing and holding rings in front of body, push rings away while leaning forward until arms fully extended, elbows locked; hold position then pull back with abs until back in starting position. Rinse and repeat until abs totally fried. The lower the rings are set, the harder this becomes. (It's now three days later and my abs are still sore as heck.)

Notes
Bit concerned about my deadlifting so I must have another session again soon with my regular set-up at home and see if I fare any better. One good thing I noticed was that holding on to the bar at 165kg with a hook-grip was easy. I think the explosive nature of the O-lifts requires a much higher grip strength than the load on the bar would suggest.

 

[Lol]

Mon 29/04/13

Had another quick go at ring dips before leaving for home.

Ring Dips
15 x BW + 8, 5, 5

Not having to do these after deadlifting made it easier to maintain form and get some extra reps in. This really is a fantastic exercise.

 

[Lol]

Tue 30/04/13

One of my mates popped over to do a workout so I joined in on a few deads. All outside in the sun! First time this year.

No warmups.

Deads
5 x 100kg
5 x 145kg

1 x 145kg + 30 second hold at the top
1 x 145kg + 60 second hold with straps

The holds were for a bit of fun. 30 seconds was about my max without straps. Even with straps, after 60 seconds my traps were feeling the strain.

Parallel-grip Chins
12 x BW
10 x BW

Slow and controlled for a change.

I can still feel a slight twinge in my left forearm/elbow when using a parallel grip but it's nowhere near as bad as with fully-supinated chins. Pull-ups completely avoid the issue.

 

[Lol]

Wed 01/05/13

I was meant to do my monthly max test today as it's now May 1st. Unfortunately, I didn't get finished working until late and so I wasn't going to be able to slam any bars. :/ So, clean & jerk and snatch max attempts will have to wait until tomorrow. I'm not expecting that they will have progressed at all as I've lost weight and haven't been able to focus on any progressive training for the past month. Still, it's worth doing: it's always a good workout.

Instead, as I've made a few adjustments to my parallel-grip chin set-up, I thought I'd test it for fitness of purpose. Seeing that it's made out of wood and a few bolts, I need to know that it's going to be strong enough to handle my bodyweight plus extra load.

Parallel-grip Chins
5 x BW
1 x BW+10kg (22lb)
1 x BW+20kg (44lb)
1 x BW+30kg (66lb)
1 x BW+35kg (77lb)
1 x BW+40kg (88lb)
1 x BW+45kg (99lb) - with the weight belt, this was more like 100lb
5 x BW+25kg (55lb) @ RPE 9.5
5 x BW+25kg (55lb) @ RPE 10
4+1,1 x BW+25kg (55lb) - sort of Myo-rep style, seeing that I didn't quite make the 5th rep

BW tonight was 86kg (189lb)

Notes
I used some 45mm x 45mm timber to make the handles. Even though I've rounded off the ends and reduced the diameter, the handles are still quite chunky so I can only just get my fingers to meet my thumbs. Makes for a good grip workout and I have no problem with that. One big plus is that wooden handles are so much more pleasant to hang from than the steel pull-up bar in my rack. (In fact, now I think about it, I think I've made them about the same size as the handles on my rowing boat's oars.)

I didn't hear any creaks or groans from the timber, even with an additional 100lb hanging from my waist so I'm reasonably confident that it should last for a while. I thought about doing a few negatives with > 1RM load but decided against it for now. No sense in destroying them just yet.

The other important thing is that my right arm was fine throughout. I'm aware that something's not quite the same as it is in my left arm, but there's no pain. I think a new goal should be a parallel-grip chin single with BW+60kg (132lb).

 

[Lol]

Thu 02/05/13

Max-out Day!

Not much sleep last night and didn't get chance to eat anything other than breakfast, at around 7am, before training at about 4pm. Not a good start.

It was such a pleasant sunny day that I thought I would take the weights outside again.

BW: 84kg (185lb)

General Warmup
Wooden Pole Shoulder Dislocates & OHS's
Nekid bar snatches

Snatch
5 x 30
3 x 40kg
3 x 50kg - not in the groove at all
1 x 60kg - p-sn + OHS and hold in bottom position
1 x 60kg - p-sn + OHS and hold in bottom position
1 x 60kg - p-sn + OHS and hold in bottom position

Nothing felt right. I don't know what it was but I just couldn't find my groove. Didn't bother attempting anything over 60kg as my form would have sucked and the whole point is not to muscle the bar up but to learn good technique first. Heigh-ho.

C&J
3 x 60kg
1 x 70kg
1 x 80kg
1 x 90kg - easy power clean!
1 x 90kg
0 x 100kg - didn't want to get under the bar. Plenty high enough just not getting down.
0 x 100kg - same again.
0 x 100kg - same

Dropped back down to 90kg
1 x 90kg
1 x 90kg
1 x 90kg
1 x 92.5kg
1 x 92.5kg
1 x 95kg
1 x 95kg
0 x 100kg

Ok, time to stop!
Some of these attempts were pretty good but the majority were more forward on receiving the bar than usual. This makes standing up from the clean harder which in turn makes the jerk harder.

High Pulls
5 x 100kg

Thought I might as well do something with the 100kg bar.

I decided to eat and then I did some bench and chins...

Bench
10 x 40kg
5 x 60kg
5 x 70kg
3 x 80kg
3 x 90kg
3 x 100kg (220lb)
3 x 100kg (220lb)
3 x 100kg (220lb) @ RPE 10!

This was a bit of an experiment to see if benching causes my shoulder issue. Even with 60kg, I could feel my anterior delts working very hard. I'm not normally aware of this so this must be down to the fact that I haven't benched since 4th March. Evidently, my benching strength is down by a fair bit: that last triple was a max effort!

Parallel-grip Chins
5 x BW
5 x BW
10 x BW

Did one set of these immediately after each set of 100kg bench in order to stretch out my sore lats from yesterday's session.

Notes
So, today was not a good day but at least I tried. Didn't expect to get any PR's but I did expect to make 100kg a couple of times for C&J's. Never mind.
I have to say that I feel my pecs get worked far more when I do dips. I think others here have said the same thing. The bw ring dips I did recently left me with sore pecs for a week! It'll be interesting to see if my pecs are sore at all from benching or if it's predominantly my shoulders.

 

[Totentanz]

Sorry you had a bad session. I'm surprised you still did it after such a crappy day. I don't think I would have had the willpower to still go and lift.

You know, lifting outside is a good idea. I might take my bar and weights out of the garage and leave them in a tarp outside, then I can start trying this stuff too. Seems like you have quite a bit of fun with the oly lifts.

 

[Jester]

Sorry you had a bad session. I'm surprised you still did it after such a crappy day. I don't think I would have had the willpower to still go and lift.

You know, lifting outside is a good idea. I might take my bar and weights out of the garage and leave them in a tarp outside, then I can start trying this stuff too. Seems like you have quite a bit of fun with the oly lifts.

Even the best tarp is only good enough to prevent rust for a while. I used to store my stuff outdoors and lift there but sooner or later there's too much moisture in the air and things go pear shaped.

I would actually advocate leaving it indoors and moving it in&out as the warm up, warm down section of the routine. Food for thought.