Losing the fat via ketosis

skinnyman

New Member
uhmm .. i follow lyle's CKD diet plan when i want to shed off some fat. Carbohydrate intake are low during the weekday in order to deplete glycogen. This raised concern because quoting from this site:

"Some popular high-protein/low-carbohydrate diets limit carbohydrates to 10 to 20 g/d,6 which is one fifth of the minimum 100 g/d that is necessary to prevent loss of lean muscle tissue."

now, i don't know what 100g/d is. the question is... is the high carb imposed on a weekend on a CKD plan enough to prevent muscle loss?

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If you are concerned about muscle loss, I would avoid ketosis. Lyle is a really smart guy, but seems to contradict himself. Or maybe he's not, because the rules for fat loss and muscle growth are different. Anyway, here are some other comments by Lyle regarding ketosis:

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Here's the thing: all hypo caloric diets cause fat loss. And, for the most part, once you meet some basic requirements (mainly protein and essential fatty acids, without generating too massive of a deficit), the differences in fat loss are pretty minor and even more highly variable. Some folks appear to do better on keto diets (although I suspect that's the carb-load more than anything) but some do better with moderate carbs. Even there the differences are minor. Folks were reporting *maybe* 3 lbs extra fat loss over 12 weeks for CKD vs a Zone type of diet.
Others reported better fat loss on the Zone type of diet. These were lean folks who were meticulous about counting their calories.
As far as I'm concerned it becomes a case of food/appetite/calorie control at that level (note: one exception is that women will tend to lose bodyfat better on lowered carbs, men might mobilize ab fat more effectively but that's debatable and highly variable). If a higher carb diet makes you hungrier and you eat more calories, you're going to lose less fat. Because you're eating more.</div>
And in terms of adding muscle:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I would certainly put carb intake above keto levels (100 g/day) for hormonal reasons. Odds are it'll be much higher than that. How much higher will depend on total caloric intake and how much fat you eat.</div>
Anyway, personally, I have done just fine by eating carbs and lowering total calories. Over the past several weeks, I have been cycling my calories (similar to CKD, but I'm depleting &amp; loading the calories &amp; not really concerned with carbs). It works just fine - I've lost about 5 - 6 pounds and cut 2 inches off my waist. I don't know that you'll see any better results in ketosis, and if you do, I don't think the extra fat you loose will be worth the muscle loss.

Plus carbs are yummy, so I'm not about to give them up if I don't need to.
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Lyle will probably come smack me now, but there's my opinion.
 
is it okay if you get 100g of carbs a day on your lowest carb day? and just deplete glycogen by high sets and reps?

yeah last time i went on a strict ckd with about 45 g on my lowest carb day, even though there's a medium carb day and a SUPER HIGH carb dayi lost a lot of muscle.
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Well, Lyle says that 100g carbs should be enough to keep you out of ketosis - although I imagine that might depend on how intense you work out on that day.

Because I don't weigh that much to begin with, by the time I get in enough protein &amp; fats, I don't have a whole lot of room for carbs in my &quot;caloric budget.&quot; Anyway, looking at my FitDay logs, most days I was around 150g carbs, a few days I dipped below 100, some days I was closer to 175 - 200 . . . But again, I'm more of a calorie guy, so IMO as long as I stay under my calories I'm OK.

My calories usually cycled like this:

M - F = 1600 - 1700
Sat = 3200 - 3300
Sun = 2000 - 2100

Basically, I just tried to double my calories on the load day, and then get more balanced on Sunday. After 5 days of dieting, eating that many calories was tough. I start feeling bloated. I guess you just get used to living below your BMR.
 
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(Falco @ Jul. 26 2006,06:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Plus carbs are yummy, so I'm not about to give them up if I don't need to.
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Lyle will probably come smack me now, but there's my opinion.</div>
why would he?
 
lol. uhm since all hypocaloric diet causes fat loss. how does fat mobilize on a non-ketogenic diet?

yeah i guess i'd just be planning on doing a modified CKD.. keeping carbs below 50g makes me feel like a zombie
 
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(skinnyman @ Jul. 29 2006,02:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">lol. uhm since all hypocaloric diet causes fat loss. how does fat mobilize on a non-ketogenic diet?</div>
fat balance is negative in a hypocaloric situation
 
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