Man on a Mission

J

johnnielow

New Member
Let me start by saying hello to everyone and to thank Bryan for putting together what seems to me to be the best program out there. I have read here for a long time on and off but never was ready to commit to training HST style.

A bit about me, I am 47 years old, 6 feet tall and as of today 290 pounds at 29% bodyfat. I am in piss poor shape to say the least and know that I need to make some serious changes in my life/lifestyle if I am ever going to acheive the body I want. I have wasted the last year of "training" by making zero progress, jsut maintained status quo.

I am a severe endomorph and was told by a trainer that I need a program that is intense but allows for plenty of time for cardio. I looked at Max-OT (5 days a week), DC Training (the people on the forum are very possesive of their knowledge) and a number of other programs but kept coming back here. So I figure if I am ever going to embark on HST that it needs to be now.

I am going to follow the base routine set down by Bryan on the information section of the website and will start figuring my 15/10/5 rep maxes on Monday the 26th.

I hope that I can depend on all of you to critique my routine, let me know how I am doing and kick me in the *** when I need it.

Thanks.


(Mods, if this is posted in the wrong section I do apologize)
 
Hello and Welcome
smile.gif


I am new here too. In fact your story sounds much like mine - out of shape and beginning to realise you must do something about it. And, like you, I spent alot of time reading and analysing before deciding to do HST. I used to be a HIT disciple - and it did give me some good results - but after extensive reading I began to see that my long cherished beliefs were not as perfect as I had believed them to be.

Further reading lead me eventually to here - and a program that has solid scientific grounding. I think you have made a wise choice.

I'm coming up to half way through the 15's and I'm loving the training. I actually enjoy it - the cycling/progressive loading makes a welcome change from having to go balls to the wall failure on every session in the mistaken belief that you are ensuring growth. I feel 'worked' rarther than 'destroyed'.

Lets see your routine then !
wink.gif
 
Sorry, just re-read - you are following the routine set down by Brian
biggrin.gif


One tip I can give you, and I hope the guys here agree with this - shedding BF is largely a matter of diet. Since gaining muscle mass requires a calorific surplus and losing BF a calorific defecit, it is near impossible to do both at the same time - although I've read that its possible to maintain muscle mass, by training, while shedding BF.

That being said, newbies can go through a period where they can gain muscle and lose BF simultaneously - but I don't understand why this is.

Also, steady state exercise may be good for your cardiovascular system but, contrary to popular belief, isn't a very effective means of 'burning' fat.
 
Welcome onboard Johnnie!

I agree with Moonglum here. Diet is they key to drop the excess. A caloric deficit will reduce total weight, but working out can help you hold on to those approx 206 lbs of lean body mass you already have. Some of it will most likely be reduced. A high protein intake is an absolute must if you want to keep the muscles (and organs) as intact as possible. The other macronutrients are just fuel. BF can be used for fuel when the dietary fuel is withheld (to a degree). Rembember that carbohydrates may stall fat loss, but the effect is temporary (some hours after each meal). Some on this forum may argue for a low/no carb diet but that is up to you (I know it works - I lost 33 lbs doing low carb during 15 weeks). Now I think it's only one of many possible ways to go (fuel total deficit is the key).

HST is a great way to go. Best of luck to you!  
smile.gif
 
<div>
(Moonglum @ May 23 2008,12:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hello and Welcome  
smile.gif


I am new here too. In fact your story sounds much like mine - out of shape and beginning to realise you must do something about it. And, like you, I spent alot of time reading and analysing before deciding to do HST. I used to be a HIT disciple - and it did give me some good results - but after extensive reading I began to see that my long cherished beliefs were not as perfect as I had believed them to be.

Further reading lead me eventually to here - and a program that has solid scientific grounding. I think you have made a wise choice.

I'm coming up to half way through the 15's and I'm loving the training. I actually enjoy it - the cycling/progressive loading makes a welcome change from having to go balls to the wall failure on every session in the mistaken belief that you are ensuring growth. I feel 'worked' rarther than 'destroyed'.

Lets see your routine then !  
wink.gif
</div>
Thanks so much. Like you I realize that HST is the way to go. I like to train but the constant pounding of the heavy weights all the time do lead to some discomfort in the elbows and such. I will post up my routine as I plan to follow it as soon as I can.

One question, should I put it in the journal section or keep it here?
 
<div>
(Moonglum @ May 23 2008,1:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sorry, just re-read - you are following the routine set down by Brian  
biggrin.gif


One tip I can give you, and I hope the guys here agree with this - shedding BF is largely a matter of diet. Since gaining muscle mass requires a calorific surplus and losing BF a calorific defecit, it is near impossible to do both at the same time - although I've read that its possible to maintain muscle mass, by training, while shedding BF.

That being said, newbies can go through a period where they can gain muscle and lose BF simultaneously - but I don't understand why this is.

Also, steady state exercise may be good for your cardiovascular system but, contrary to popular belief, isn't a very effective means of 'burning' fat.</div>
I am looking to &quot;maintain&quot; right now, the first priority is to rid myself of some of the excess fat. I know that cardio will be my friend in this matter but do want to keep as much muscle as possible. Thanks for the tip.
 
<div>
(nkl @ May 23 2008,1:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Welcome onboard Johnnie!

I agree with Moonglum here. Diet is they key to drop the excess. A caloric deficit will reduce total weight, but working out can help you hold on to those approx 206 lbs of lean body mass you already have. Some of it will most likely be reduced. A high protein intake is an absolute must if you want to keep the muscles (and organs) as intact as possible. The other macronutrients are just fuel. BF can be used for fuel when the dietary fuel is withheld (to a degree). Rembember that carbohydrates may stall fat loss, but the effect is temporary (some hours after each meal). Some on this forum may argue for a low/no carb diet but that is up to you (I know it works - I lost 33 lbs doing low carb during 15 weeks). Now I think it's only one of many possible ways to go (fuel total deficit is the key).

HST is a great way to go. Best of luck to you!  
smile.gif
</div>
Thanks nkl. I have tried the low/zero carb approach and it isn't for me. I am most likely going to consume my carbs at breakfast and pre and post workout only and then meals after that will include green veggies as well as lean proteins. I know for me that diet will be the hardest part, but then nothing really worthwhile comes easy.
 
A question that I am hoping someone can answer. In January on 2001 I suffered a complete dislocation of my left knee and tore my patellar tendon and my ACL and MCL. My rehab was a complete success but did come with a price, that being that I can't squat much below parallel without knee pain for a few days and can't handle heavy weights. On the routine Bryan showed on the main pages it said to pick squats or leg presses and leg curls. I was planning on doing leg press and leg curls in my routine but should I try to squat even if I can't use the heaviest of weights? And how would I be best suited in adding rack deadlifts, alternate them into every other workout?

Thanks for the help.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I will post up my routine as I plan to follow it as soon as I can.
One question, should I put it in the journal section or keep it here? </div>

You can start a thread in the Training Log subsection if that is what you meant. But if you only want comments on your routine, then this is a good place as any in the Training section.

For squats, have you tried different foot positions? That will change the line of descent and thus change the torque. Also, there is a difference between front and back squats. If you only can do lightweight squats, then do it. The squat is beneficial for your core development as well. When it gets heavier, substitute the squat with some leg and core exercises.
 
<div>
(nkl @ May 23 2008,9:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I will post up my routine as I plan to follow it as soon as I can.
One question, should I put it in the journal section or keep it here? </div>

You can start a thread in the Training Log subsection if that is what you meant. But if you only want comments on your routine, then this is a good place as any in the Training section.

For squats, have you tried different foot positions? That will change the line of descent and thus change the torque. Also, there is a difference between front and back squats. If you only can do lightweight squats, then do it. The squat is beneficial for your core development as well. When it gets heavier, substitute the squat with some leg and core exercises.</div>
I will probably start a log so I can track progression, thanks.

On foot position, I have tried them all I believe. I can squat, but once I get to parallel I get pain in my knee which in some cases will last for days. My doctor has over the years advised against squats both front and back but at my last physical did say I could do back  squat but not with heavy weights. He advised that I use the leg press for anything heavy.

I can usually work up to about 225 with no pain but after that there is pain. So I will probably squat in the 15 and 10 rep range but reserve the leg press for the 5 rep sets. Does that sound acceptable?
 
<div>
(johnnielow @ May 23 2008,10:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My rehab was a complete success but did come with a price, that being that I can't squat much below parallel without knee pain for a few days and can't handle heavy weights. On the routine Bryan showed on the main pages it said to pick squats or leg presses and leg curls. I was planning on doing leg press and leg curls in my routine but should I try to squat even if I can't use the heaviest of weights? And how would I be best suited in adding rack deadlifts, alternate them into every other workout?</div>
I agree with nkl - play with your foot position and see if that corrects the knee pain. What I've read lately suggests that, if done correctly, squats have no bearing on the knees. I tend to believe this as I have horrible knees and have no issues doing heavy squats - now. I changed my stance and it corrected every issue I'd had in the past.

Personally, I'd recommend staying away from the leg press and leg curl machines specifically BECAUSE of your knees. If you happen to overdevelop your quads and underdevelop your hamstring/rectus biceps, the knee issues you'll experience will trump anything you've felt in the past. I made that mistake for YEARS. Stick with squats, and only when you've tried every foot position imagineable AND IT DOESN'T HELP, look for alternatives.

Deadlifts can be done in the same workout as squats until the loads get too heavy. At that point, you'd want to alter the frequency based on you own personal healing time.

Welcome to the board!
 
<div>
(_tim @ May 23 2008,9:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(johnnielow @ May 23 2008,10:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My rehab was a complete success but did come with a price, that being that I can't squat much below parallel without knee pain for a few days and can't handle heavy weights. On the routine Bryan showed on the main pages it said to pick squats or leg presses and leg curls. I was planning on doing leg press and leg curls in my routine but should I try to squat even if I can't use the heaviest of weights? And how would I be best suited in adding rack deadlifts, alternate them into every other workout?</div>
I agree with nkl - play with your foot position and see if that corrects the knee pain.  What I've read lately suggests that, if done correctly, squats have no bearing on the knees.  I tend to believe this as I have horrible knees and have no issues doing heavy squats - now.  I changed my stance and it corrected every issue I'd had in the past.

Personally, I'd recommend staying away from the leg press and leg curl machines specifically BECAUSE of your knees.  If you happen to overdevelop your quads and underdevelop your hamstring/rectus biceps, the knee issues you'll experience will trump anything you've felt in the past.  I made that mistake for YEARS.  Stick with squats, and only when you've tried every foot position imagineable AND IT DOESN'T HELP, look for alternatives.

Deadlifts can be done in the same workout as squats until the loads get too heavy.  At that point, you'd want to alter the frequency based on you own personal healing time.

Welcome to the board!</div>
Will do. I know that I need to squat for proper development, now I just need to work on hamstring strength as well. Looks like some stiff leg deadlifts need to be added.

Thanks so much, time to work out my routine.
 
OK, here is what I am thinking for exercise selection to start,

Squat
Stiff Leg Deadlift
Incline Bench (may use Hammer Strength)
Dips
Wide/Narrow Grip Pulldowns with palms facing me
Rack Deadlifts
DB Shrugs
Shoulder Press
Rear Machine Laterals
EZ Bar Curls (helps with forearm pain)
Tricep Pressdowns
Machine Crunch

Now, do I have those in the right order as I have seen it written with calves following legs and traps before triceps?

Again, to all that have helped thank you so much.
 
That's not bad but i would strongly recommend the vanilla routine for your 1st cycle. Doing squats/sldl/rack deadlifts might be a bit much everyday.

I would recommend
Squats alternated everyother workout with deadlifts
bench press
Chinups/ alternated with barbell rows or pendley rows
Dips
Shoulder press
and if you want bis/tris
Bicep curl alternated with tricpes every other workout
calves
abs

It'a bit simpler and you can concentrate on big compound movements mostly

By the way, welcome aboard, i'm pretty new here, am jsut finishing my first cycle.

for cardio, i recommend you break a sweat everyday, it'll help lose bf.

Do some Hiit stuff it seems to be current trend for bf loss. I do it 5-7 times a week for 5-8 minutes a day. It kicks my *** and it's over a lot quicker then a 30-45 minute jog
 
<div>
(HstRiggins @ May 23 2008,11:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That's not bad but i would strongly recommend the vanilla routine for your 1st cycle.  Doing squats/sldl/rack deadlifts might be a bit much everyday.

I would recommend
Squats alternated everyother workout with deadlifts
bench press
Chinups/ alternated with barbell rows or pendley rows
Dips
Shoulder press
and if you want bis/tris
Bicep curl alternated with tricpes every other workout
calves
abs

It'a  bit simpler and you can concentrate on big compound movements mostly

By the way, welcome aboard, i'm pretty new here, am jsut finishing my first cycle.  

for cardio, i recommend you break a sweat everyday, it'll help lose bf.

Do some Hiit stuff it seems to be current trend for bf loss.  I do it 5-7 times a week for 5-8 minutes a day.  It kicks my *** and it's over a lot quicker then a 30-45 minute  jog</div>
OK, to make sure that I have it straight

Squats
Bench Press
Chins
Dips
Shoulder Press
EZ Bar Curls
Standing Calf Raise
Ab Machine

Then the next session would be

Deadlifts
Bench
Barbell Rows
Dips
Shoulder Press
Tricep Pressdowns
Calves
Abs


Is that correct?
 
Yeah that routine is pretty good. If you want to make it even simpler you can alternate bench press with dips every other day and eliminate triceps and biceps as it sounds that your goal is to lose bf%.

If you do keep biceps and triceps you should do barbell curls instead easy bar. I did have to use the easy bar for the 1st 3 workouts of my 15's because i was curling less weight then the barbell that is 45 pounds, but then i quickly switched to the barbell curls as soons i hit 45 lbs.

HST for dummies is pretty good readup for someone that gets confused about how exactly HST works and what to do.

How's you're diet? I lost about 45-50 pounds and 12% bf in the last year and a half, and i started by cutting out simple carbs, like basic sugar in coffee all sodas, beer, etc. That alone shed a ton of weight off me in no time. Then i read a lot of the stickies in the Nutrition section on bodybuilding.com forums. You might already know all that stuff, but it helped me.
 
<div>
(HstRiggins @ May 23 2008,12:04)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah that routine is pretty good.  If you want to make it even simpler you can alternate bench press with dips every other day and eliminate triceps and biceps as it sounds that your goal is to lose bf%.  

If you do keep biceps and triceps you should do barbell curls instead easy bar.  I did have to use the easy bar for the 1st 3 workouts of my 15's because i was curling less weight then the barbell that is 45 pounds, but then i quickly switched to the barbell curls as soons i hit 45 lbs.

HST for dummies is pretty good readup for someone that gets confused about how exactly HST works and what to do.  

How's you're diet?  I lost about 45-50 pounds and 12% bf in the last year and a half, and i started by cutting out simple carbs, like basic sugar in coffee all sodas, beer, etc.  That alone shed a ton of weight off me in no time.  Then i read a lot of the stickies in the Nutrition section on bodybuilding.com forums.  You might already know all that stuff, but it helped me.</div>
I need to keep some arm work in as they need work big time. I mainly use the EZ Curl bar as it causes less discomfort in the foreams, I have battled alot of tendonitis there in the past. The routine in HST for Dummies might be what I go with, looks solid.

My diet has been non-existant to this point unless gluttony is a diet. I am going to go high protein, moderate fats and lower carbs, having carbs at breakfast and then pre and post workout only. After those times it will be green veggies. I am slowly cutting back on coffee and drink only diet soda and green tea but I feel the diet soda must go to.

Congrats on your weight loss, very admirable
 
The diet is really the hardest part, you just have to have extreme willpower. Plain oatmeal in the morning is good for you and I dont mind the taste at all. It fills you pretty good too. Then i stick to mostly chicken fruits/vegtables for the rest of the day. Of course there's always an occasional fall off the wagon.

Big thing to is portion size. That was one of my biggest problems. I used to finish the plate no matter what was on it. So when i make food, I make much smaller portions and i tell my wife to make mine smaller as well.

I still drink coffee, just black. At first it was tough, but now i'm used to the taste without cream/sugar. Mostly though i just drink water.

Good luck to you, just start a simply routine with all compound moves and just add in some arm work. With a simple routine you can also add some work while you're at the gym if you feel you need more work on something. No worries either way, it's only your first cycle and you'll learn things from it and have a much better understanding of what works and doesn't work for your next cycle if you choose to do another one.

Either way, make sure you start a log on here.
 
<div>
(HstRiggins @ May 23 2008,12:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The diet is really the hardest part, you just have to have extreme willpower.  Plain oatmeal in the morning is good for you and I dont mind the taste at all.  It fills you pretty good too.  Then i stick to mostly chicken fruits/vegtables for the rest of the day.  Of course there's always an occasional fall off the wagon.  

Big thing to is portion size.  That was one of my biggest problems.  I used to finish the plate no matter what was on it.  So when i make food, I  make much smaller portions and i tell my wife to make mine smaller as well.

I still drink coffee, just black.  At first it was tough, but now i'm used to the taste without cream/sugar.    Mostly though i just drink water.  

Good luck to you,  just start a simply routine with all compound moves and just add in some arm work.  With a simple routine you can also add  some work while you're at the gym if you feel you need more work on something.  No worries either way, it's only your first cycle and you'll learn things from it and have a much better understanding of what works and doesn't work for your next cycle if you choose to do another one.

Either way, make sure you start a log on here.</div>
You are dead on Riggins, the diet will be the hardest part but will yield the best results. I think what I will do is put together a realy vanilla routine as you suggested and work arms one day a week so they don't lag to far behind. This is what I am thinking now after your input,

Workout 1
Squats
Leg Curls or SLDL
Incline Bench
Shoulder Press
Pulldowns
Bent Rows
Barbell Curls
Abs
Calves

Workout 2
Rack Deadlifts
Incline Bench
Dips
Shoulder Press
Rear Laterals
Pushdowns
Calves
Abs

Workout 3 is a repeat of workout 1 with no bicep or tricep work.
 
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