Max-Stim

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Peak_Power

New Member
Maybe I'm just stupid, but I'm having trouble understanding Max-Stim and how M-time works. So basically you do 1 rep, completely rack the weight/put the bar down etc., wait 3 seconds or so, pick the weight up, do another rep, put it down, wait 3 secs. etc until you've done 20 reps? Them seems a lot like rest-pause training to me but you put the weight down completely instead of just holding it still.

I do a lot of dumbell stuff (like DB Bench Press) so its hard to sit up, put the weight down, rest, pick it up everytime for every rep.

Not doubting that it works, just thinking its a little impractical for a lot of exercises (seems ideal for Deadlifts though cause you can just lower the bar to the ground and wait 3 secs before you pick it up again)
 
Ok I read through some stuff, the post "what Max-stim isn't" was particularly helpful, but I just want to be clear that I do it properly before I start trying it.

Lets say I'm doing shoulder press, I pick the weight up, I do 1 rep, I put the weight down, wait about 3 secs, pick the weight up again, do 1 rep, wait and repeat until I've done 20 reps? Using an M-time between about 3 and 7 secs to keep fatigue away?

Are there any other important things I need to know? I'm going to try it with shoulders as they are lagging, and if I find it works well I will add to other body parts.
 
M-Time varies according to the load. If you are using your 5RM or above you will find it will likely need to be longer than 7 seconds at some point during the set. When I did max-stim for my curls on Saturday I was using a weight just greater than my 5RM. I started with 5 seconds M-Time and had to increase it to around 25 seconds by the end of the set. I'm not sure if M-Time will decrease as your body gets used to this way of working as I don't do it often enough yet. If you find you didn't wait quite long enough and a rep is particularly hard just wait a little longer for the next one or you will grind to a halt.

By the way, after that set, my bis have a deep level of soreness that I have only ever experienced doing Max-stim.
 
If you have a power rack, overhead presses are very easy to do Max-Stim style. I just set the pins slightly below shoulder level, and rest the bar on the pins after each rep.

Like Lol, I've gone over 20 seconds M-time, in my case with bench presses at about my 5RM. With lighter weights, I use as little as about 2 seconds. You use the M-time needed to finish your reps.
 
Its a really interesting way of training, very counter-intuitive, but interesting that study they did where 1 group trained to failure, the other group did 1 rep, then 30secs rest, and both had about the same strength increase over time. Makes you rethink everything we know about training.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Makes you rethink everything we know about training.</div>

Yep, both HST and now Max-Stim do that, wonderful hey? Except for &quot;bubble heads&quot; but then not many of those hang around here long enough unles they hang they massive ego's at the door!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I do a lot of dumbell stuff (like DB Bench Press) so its hard to sit up, put the weight down, rest, pick it up everytime for every rep.</div>

I felt that way too, now I just use it for exercises that I can do easily, B/P was the biggest shlep beciuse I don't have a power rack, but you get over it and try it with other exercises.

Lol's point is valuable, as your max stim will very individually and possibly even with increased form and practice, so it will have to be managed by each, I am sure you won't struggle as you have been training people for a while...

Cheers
 
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(Peak_Power @ Sep. 25 2006,17:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Its a really interesting way of training, very counter-intuitive.



Makes you rethink everything we know about training.</div>
I tend to think so
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Made me think a whole lot
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The more I think about it the more it makes sense, Time under tension is time under tension, there's nothing that says it has to be &quot;continuous&quot; TUT for it to be effective. No reason why 20 &quot;1 rep sets&quot; under load would be different from 1 set of 20 reps, only you can lift a heavier weight and get less fatigued.

Dan do you have any comments on max-stim's effect on muscular endurance and CNS efficiency? Would max-stim actually have a negatively impact, leave it the same, or even increase it? This is particularly for people who are training for sports where endurance and CNS are important factors.
 
could someone help me understand something i read on the max stim website. dan recommends 2 workouts per week, as he feels 3 doesn't produce enough responce to warent more than 2. yet bryan reccomends a minimum of 3 x week if recovering properly. due to the 36-48 hour hormonal responce window.

how much of a difference were there between 2x a week and 3x a week for hypertrophy and strength?

wouldn't 3 x a week be better overall for hypertrophy at least, considering the 36-48 hour window if recovery allows, or is basically the increase insignificatny compared to 2x a week.

i hope i'm making sense.
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thanks.
 
Dragon

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">dan recommends 2 workouts per week, as he feels 3 doesn't produce enough responce to warent more than 2. yet bryan reccomends a minimum of 3 x week if recovering properly. due to the 36-48 hour hormonal responce window.</div>

There is quite a difference in the two systems, In my understanding Dan's method takes one beyond the actual rep max required by normal methods so it is bound to have repercussions that need some extra rest too, he has obviously tried the three days and saw not much response compared to the twice p/week.

HST on the other hand works best when the summation effect is well explored, all things considered of course, by this I mean nutrition &amp; rest so that hypertrophy is optimum.

HST avoids RBE by using the right amount of rest within the window of opportunity of protein synthesis (36 - 48 hours) and avoiding failure (which we determine as lack of form or considerable slowing of a rep), it works however with the safety amount of reps towards the end (5 reps), the safety range being 4 - 6 reps.

Hope I am making sense here
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(DRAGON @ Sep. 27 2006,08:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">could someone help me understand something i read on the max stim website. dan recommends 2 workouts per week, as he feels 3 doesn't produce enough responce to warent more than 2. yet bryan reccomends a minimum of 3 x week if recovering properly. due to the 36-48 hour hormonal responce window.

how much of a difference were there between 2x a week and 3x a week for hypertrophy and strength?

wouldn't 3 x a week be better overall for hypertrophy at least, considering the 36-48 hour window if recovery allows, or is basically the increase insignificatny compared to 2x a week.

i hope i'm making sense.
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thanks.</div>
Go to hypertrophy-research.com

Go to the articles tab

Read the &quot;Basics&quot; series of articles
 
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(Peak_Power @ Sep. 26 2006,22:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dan do you have any comments on max-stim's effect on muscular endurance and CNS efficiency? Would max-stim actually have a negatively impact, leave it the same, or even increase it?

This is particularly for people who are training for sports where endurance and CNS are important factors.</div>
This was my original thought, IE reduced strength endurance but there has been a mixed bag of results of far, some have found that initially their SE levels decreased somewhat but rebounded to a higher level after 1 or 2 high rep workouts following Max-Stim cycle.

Blade's actually increased, IE more reps with same load, BUT he was doing some high rep depletion stuff at the same time frame so it could have been responsible??

What we know from the studies, see &quot;More SUpport&quot; thread in MAX Stimulation Forum...

Power seems to be increased and since sport specific power increases are generally benefical it seems positive but naturally this will depend on the sport itself.

So honestly, don't know yet.
 
i have read it dan, but perhaph i havn't understood it properly  
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any chance you can break it down i.e. frequency for dummies style for me please  
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this paragraph of your frequency doc, was the part i was referring to particularly :

&quot;Carroll (3) tested strength and MHC gains in the leg muscles for 2d vs. 3d per week training. In this study, results were similar but higher strength gains were seen in the 2d per week subjects. Other work (4) by some of the same researches earlier had shown that 3X week training for 12 weeks increased increased arm girth (5%) and forearm extensor strength (39%), associated with the triceps brachii muscle.&quot;

you then say:

&quot;If one is willing, and/or able, to adjust the factors needed for proper recovery, and are a healthy adult, twice weekly training per muscle or muscle group appears to be the optimal prescription. Superior results have not been found for higher frequencies of stimulation (in longer term situations), but lesser results have been found for lower frequencies. &quot;

so what were the differences in results for 2x a week and 3 x a week protocols, as with the hormonal window of 36-48 hours, as i understand it, the 3x weekly frequency, should produce more hypertrophy than 2x a week, all other factors being equal. yet the studies you quote show otherwise. this is confusing me.

thanks for the help Fausto, i realise max stim is different from hst, but the studies dan quoted were not using max stim or hst, thats all.
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thanks for any help.
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Ultimately it comes down to the individual and their method of training.

What I mean is, yes some markers of hypertrophy appear to be elevated for around 36-48 hours but some others hang around much longer 72-96 hours.

Now when loading we have an issue when too much work is being done and therefore fatigue accumulates to an extent that successive loading becomes lessened, if this is the case then there are two options (basically) reduce the amount of work or allow greater recovery times. Now I'm not a big fan of reducing the work and since the exact time that all markers totally disapear is somewhat varied I would recommend going to 2X week versus reducing load or work. JMO though.

Lastly, when reviewing many studies that have used either 2X week or 3X week there wasn't much difference in the CSA increase between them. If we are merely looking at the studies results it's practically a wash. But this is without going real deep and equating things like volume, load, total TUT or any of the variables that make up a workout. It's only looking at frequency and CSA change.
 
So Dan what you're saying is once you start getting into the really heavy weights, 5RM and into negs, by going to 2x p/w your joints/muscles would recover more you could extend your cycle more (like into 12-16 weeks), offsetting the loss of that extra day's growth?

Do you do negs in max-stim? and if so the same principle of 1 rep then m-time?
 
M-time makes negatives unecessary. With m-time the reps are not as fatigueing so you should manage the concentric and the eccentric portions of the rep, then rest, etc. During the end of a max-stim cycle the loads are usually so heavy that m-time can be 15 to 30 seconds or more between reps, so the loads are PLENTY to stimulate hypertrophy without resorting to negatives.

Again see the link to the max-stim sight...it is my signature!
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Yeah I read through some stuff there. Am I asking newbie questions? lol

I would have thought you could still do negs because you could only train up to your 1RM with max-stim, but in a 12 week progression you might be able to get up to 120% of your 1RM with pure negs.
 
Well the highest loads max-stim uses is 110% of your 6 rm, at least as how Dan lays it out. Studies have shown that hypertrophy is most pronounced when using 80% to 95% of your 1 rm. Any less than this has less than maximum hypertrophy, any more than this is too much and the metabolic and CNS fatigue is too much, so the hypertrophy is less than optimal.

I wouldn't recommend using 100% of your 1rm load or more, as this is unecessarily dangerous, and DOES NOT maximize hypertrophy stimulation.
 
This is getting exciting guys!
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Could we assume as Peak's saying that on another level, if you extend your cycle quite a bit that you would eventually would be doing close to your 1 RM but by then your strength would have increased to the point of making it a 5RM or even 6RM?

Just wondering
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