MaxStim - Bicep and Tricep Work (isos)

B

bobpit

New Member
In the MaxStim page I read:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bicep and Tricep Work
Bicep Recommendation-following your last set of Back exercises add 1 or 2
sets of incline DB curl, concentration curl, BB curl or whatever isolation
exercise you choose to use.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I do not understand. After the back exercises, the biceps will be fatigued.
The point of MS is to minimize fatigue and lift heavier.

So, to minimize fatigue, I would design it like this:
BP, ROW, Triceps iso, Biceps iso.

Why is this wrong?

(there is a problem in the maxstim forum, that's why I ask it here.)
 
Okay, I think I understand your question now... MS doesn't eliminate fatigue, but rather reduces it to it's minimum while using a larger workload. This leaves more in the the tank for other work, yes, and you could remanage your routine as you show to give a break before isolating a muscle used just before - but - the example was only suggesting two sets of the iso anyway; it's not like you would be doing a super arm blast into HIT oblivion land. When I do iso's even with my regular HST or whatever, I do something similar - if I do iso's at all.
I'm new at MS, so others may have better answers.
 
Isolations at the end of a workout have always been the recommended procedure when handling iso's under HST. Max-Stim is no different.
 
colby, I think you misunderstood his question. He isn't questioning why you would do an iso after the compounds....but why do a bicep iso after a bicep compound (back)?

Wouldn't it be better to do a bicep iso after a tricep compound (bench) and vice versa?
 
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(jwbond @ Mar. 17 2008,09:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">colby, I think you misunderstood his question. He isn't questioning why you would do an iso after the compounds....but why do a bicep iso after a bicep compound (back)?

Wouldn't it be better to do a bicep iso after a tricep compound (bench) and vice versa?</div>
Probably for extra exhaustion. An MS set should be enough to fatigue the muscles, but since the biceps are not the primary muscle in a Row, there should be room for more fatigue in the biceps. Doing it directly afterwards ensures pushing strain to the limits.

The biceps are not even a synergist is the row movement, but merely a muscle used for stabilizing the load.
 
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(colby2152 @ Mar. 17 2008,09:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Probably for extra exhaustion. An MS set should be enough to fatigue the muscles, but since the biceps are not the primary muscle in a Row, there should be room for more fatigue in the biceps. Doing it directly afterwards ensures pushing strain to the limits.</div>
This is EXACTLY my question. Why do I want to fatigue the muscles in a MS workout, when the entire philosophy is to avoid fatigue and lift heavier?

Ah...., in other words: If I ignore the MS recomendation (BP, then triceps) and I do (BP, ROW, Triceps iso, Biceps iso), then I can use heavier loads for the triceps isos.
 
I use whatever allows me to use most load during a cycle. I'll do chest before back so that when I then hit delts they will have had a chance to recover a bit from the chest work (in which they will almost always have been involved quite heavily).

If Dan is really recommending that you do bis right after back work it's probably because he's reasoning that it's better to train bis the same session as back rather than do them the following day to afford more recuperation time between bouts. If you don't want to do that then don't. (Lot's of folks train bis and tris on a different day to back, chest and delt work.) It's no big deal whichever way you do it BUT if you want to use the most load (for greater strain) and you are going to train back, chest, bis and tris in the same workout, it makes sense to allow some recovery time after back work before hitting bis. Same for chest/delts and tris.
 
Why does everyone post max-stim questions in the SST section?  Dan has been more than clear that he designed max-stim for hypertrophy specifically.

He advocates arm iso's after compounds because the arm muscles are already worked and warmed up.  In the original max-stim template Dan advises that most trainees don't even need direct arm-work since there are so many compounds which work them.
 
It's here so here it is, I reckon.
I agree with Lol, but I do think it's a pretty important deal if you do compounds, hitting a muscle, (let's say bi's) then hitting them again the next day with iso's if you're splitting. If not, you have the day off for recuperation which takes care of that.
I assume most of us aren't stupid enough to double up on a muscle so the equation leaves us with either pre-fatiguing the muscle then working it...and some research is beginning to show that fatigue isn't all we used to think it was worth, plus you won't be able to work it as heavy or long...(workload total)
or we get a fair bit of work in the compounds and hit that same muscle hard with isos two days later. IMO that is much better since the muscle is alternating with easy/hard.
 
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(quadancer @ Mar. 17 2008,20:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It's here so here it is, I reckon.
I agree with Lol, but I do think it's a pretty important deal if you do compounds, hitting a muscle, (let's say bi's) then hitting them again the next day with iso's if you're splitting. If not, you have the day off for recuperation which takes care of that.
I assume most of us aren't stupid enough to double up on a muscle so the equation leaves us with either pre-fatiguing the muscle then working it...and some research is beginning to show that fatigue isn't all we used to think it was worth, plus you won't be able to work it as heavy or long...(workload total)
or we get a fair bit of work in the compounds and hit that same muscle hard with isos two days later. IMO that is much better since the muscle is alternating with easy/hard.</div>
agreed!

maybe i cant comment as im training one bp per week, but i would never consider putting chest and tri's in the same workout due to the amount of fatigue my muscles would suffer. also why not hit the muscle again (tri's) later in the week. more beneficial.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Mar. 17 2008,19:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Why does everyone post max-stim questions in the SST section? Dan has been more than clear that he designed max-stim for hypertrophy specifically.</div>
I don't understand that either?
 
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