Mike's Log - The Road to Recovery

I can do that at some point, though I'm lifting at the gym at the moment, so it might be a little awkward to snag video for the time being.

For the landmine press, check out this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTbi_qXrHcM

I'd recommend a staggered stance and more of an emphasis on a tight gut/neutral spine (i.e. not hyperextending in the lower back, which this dude is a bit), but this setup in a rack is super convenient, and basically what I did. The bar gets propped up by the safety catches such that you can dip down a little and start the exercise without having to awkwardly clean the weight up. Just put the bar in the corner of the rack so it doesn't appreciably slip, and you're good to go.


Those look to be more functional in everyday life as opposed to standard overhead presses. Ive been seeing more and more guys getting away from dumbbell and barbell overhead pressing due to causing problems in the shoulder joint. Ive personally have done any in a few years sticking with dumbbell laterals and some wider grip upright rows pulling up to the lower chest area and my shoulders are the best they have ever been.

I recently read a EKG testing study that showed face pulls using a high cable had the highest activation of any exercise for both the side and rear delt heads so Im gonna do some experimenting with those.
 
Those look to be more functional in everyday life as opposed to standard overhead presses. Ive been seeing more and more guys getting away from dumbbell and barbell overhead pressing due to causing problems in the shoulder joint. Ive personally have done any in a few years sticking with dumbbell laterals and some wider grip upright rows pulling up to the lower chest area and my shoulders are the best they have ever been.

I recently read a EKG testing study that showed face pulls using a high cable had the highest activation of any exercise for both the side and rear delt heads so Im gonna do some experimenting with those.
Most folks have shockingly bad shoulder mobility/flexibility. If they worked on that as much as overhead pressing they'd have fewer problems.
 
Most folks have shockingly bad shoulder mobility/flexibility. If they worked on that as much as overhead pressing they'd have fewer problems.

This is true.

This is a subject I've thought a lot about, i.e. how the hell I screwed up my shoulder in the first place. The simplest answer is that I was on the wrong side of the stress/adaptation curve, i.e. I overloaded the joint such that it could not properly adapt. This through some combination of my programming (which at times was ambitious) and perhaps my form, with a dose of predisposing factors in there (I have somewhat unlevel hips, and as a consequence, unlevel shoulders, due to an inherent hip asymmetry).

When the going gets tough in exercises, there is a tendency to spontaneously compensate. Be this a 1 rep max or the last rep of a really hard set. This, in essence, is the danger of pushing too close to failure too often - suboptimal technique with heavy loads. Not because you're trying to use ****ty form to lift more weight, but because when the going gets tough, we all compensate a little.

Different exercises seem to have different degrees of wiggle room. A deadlift gone a little wrong can herniate a spinal disc, for example, so REALLY pushing aggressively on that lift has a tendency to explode some people's backs, particularly when you factor in predisposing factors. Whereas with something like a standing barbell curl and the loads you're capable of using in that lift, you pretty rarely see people wreck themselves, despite the frequency of crappy form in most gyms.

In my case, for whatever reason, I would notice that my left shoulder would kind of spazz out slightly occasionally with either top end weights or in pushing towards the end of a hard set of standing presses. It's hard to say exactly why this happened, I don't really think it was a mobility limitation per se, and I've always balanced my pushes with pulls (both rowing and chinning in at least equal volume). Hell, when I hurt my shoulder, I was even actively doing prehab work for my shoulder in the form of external rotations.

I'm not exactly sure how I'd use this information, however. On one hand, I could have attempted to moderate this by staying well away from failure or top end weights in the standing press. But how realistic is that in the pursuit of muscle/strength?

As such, and as per bodybuilding wisdom, I do think there comes a point where you have to look at exercise variations which allow you to train the joints/ROM/muscles in a given lift but that don't predispose you to problems when the going gets tough. From a muscle building perspective I never HAD to do standing barbell overhead presses, and seated presses literally never hurt my shoulders. Though, unfortunately, after hurting my shoulder with the standing variant, seated started to hurt, too.

Either way, the landmine press seems like a way to get some loading in a press variant without aggravating anything. Over time, more exercise options may open up, though I'm not sure I'd ever go beyond just seated overhead variants. Again, from a muscle building perspective, I'm not actually sure I NEED any overhead variant. Bench variations and additional side + rear delt work would probably cover me just fine.
 
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Well said.

I really like the landmine press since you started talking about it more in the last fortnight or so.
 
I'm yet to try it. It's got me intrigued seeing you guys using it and I wonder if my left shoulder will appreciate it. I'm looking for a more suitable exercise than DB upright rows for my 5x10 sets.
 
I'm yet to try it. It's got me intrigued seeing you guys using it and I wonder if my left shoulder will appreciate it. I'm looking for a more suitable exercise than DB upright rows for my 5x10 sets.

I'm not a fan of upright rows of any variation as you're putting the shoulder in a fairly internally rotated, impinged position at the top pretty much no matter what. You can limit this by limiting the range of motion of the exercise (i.e. don't raise your arms past parallel), but it seems like an inherently bad exercise imo. Obviously, some people tolerate it, but I try to stay away from exercises that seem to put the body into compromising positions. To me that exercise would be something like the equivalent of a roundbacked deadlift for the low back - obviously fine for some, but asking for trouble in many others.
 
I'm not a fan of upright rows of any variation as you're putting the shoulder in a fairly internally rotated, impinged position at the top pretty much no matter what. You can limit this by limiting the range of motion of the exercise (i.e. don't raise your arms past parallel), but it seems like an inherently bad exercise imo. Obviously, some people tolerate it, but I try to stay away from exercises that seem to put the body into compromising positions. To me that exercise would be something like the equivalent of a roundbacked deadlift for the low back - obviously fine for some, but asking for trouble in many others.


Yep, I agree. I have never experienced any pain doing the uprights, however, I struggle "feeling" it, if that makes sense. I never walk away thinking 'geez, that was a tough shoulder workout'. So the landmine press might be what I'm looking for.
 
I'm not a fan of upright rows of any variation as you're putting the shoulder in a fairly internally rotated, impinged position at the top pretty much no matter what. You can limit this by limiting the range of motion of the exercise (i.e. don't raise your arms past parallel), but it seems like an inherently bad exercise imo. Obviously, some people tolerate it, but I try to stay away from exercises that seem to put the body into compromising positions. To me that exercise would be something like the equivalent of a roundbacked deadlift for the low back - obviously fine for some, but asking for trouble in many others.

What I find most frustrating about shoulders (and hips) is that there is a good deal of variation (subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle) in physiological structure (bone shape, tendon insertions, muscle belly length, etc.) from one person to the next; and there are often differences in symmetry in the same person. So, what causes impingement/discomfort/damage in one person (or on one side of the body) seems to be fine for another (or on the other). None of us know what we have to work with until we start trying things out on ourselves.

I had no joy with upright rows using a wide grip; they felt really horrible. Strangely, close grip were more comfortable, even when lifting the bar to my chin!

When I first tried overhead squatting (because I read a Dan John article on how much of a challenging exercise they were) I found the movement nigh on impossible. My shoulders had always given me trouble so it wasn't very surprising. With my hands set as wide apart as they could go on my bar, 131cm, I eventually managed a 40kg OHS, but I had numb index and middle fingers for about three days afterwards due to nerve impingement. That started me off on my quest for improved shoulder mobility; and I'm still on that road.

Just yesterday, about 3 years (Might be longer? Time has a habit of flying) after my first attempt at an OHS, I managed to do a relatively easy 60kg clean-grip OHS (<86cm apart) with no obvious nerve impingement; and certainly no evidence of any numbness afterwards. I haven't trained for this. I just had a go and it was okay. If my rough calcs are not too far out, my hands were 45cm closer together and my arms went from almost 50º away from vertical to only 22º from vertical. That's pretty cool because at 48, I'm no spring chicken. Improved hip flexibility played a part too as that has helped me to be able to keep a more upright torso.

My advice to anyone would be to do as Mike suggested (ie. stay away from exercises that seem to put the body into compromising positions) but work on flexibility/mobility instead and then periodically come back to the ones that you feel you would like to be able to do and give them another shot.

Many sports and strength related activities take their toll on shoulders and really tighten them up, so I think it is vital to have a regular stretching/mobility routine to help them stay supple.
 
What I find most frustrating about shoulders (and hips) is that there is a good deal of variation (subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle) in physiological structure (bone shape, tendon insertions, muscle belly length, etc.) from one person to the next; and there are often differences in symmetry in the same person. So, what causes impingement/discomfort/damage in one person (or on one side of the body) seems to be fine for another (or on the other). None of us know what we have to work with until we start trying things out on ourselves.

I had no joy with upright rows using a wide grip; they felt really horrible. Strangely, close grip were more comfortable, even when lifting the bar to my chin!

When I first tried overhead squatting (because I read a Dan John article on how much of a challenging exercise they were) I found the movement nigh on impossible. My shoulders had always given me trouble so it wasn't very surprising. With my hands set as wide apart as they could go on my bar, 131cm, I eventually managed a 40kg OHS, but I had numb index and middle fingers for about three days afterwards due to nerve impingement. That started me off on my quest for improved shoulder mobility; and I'm still on that road.

Just yesterday, about 3 years (Might be longer? Time has a habit of flying) after my first attempt at an OHS, I managed to do a relatively easy 60kg clean-grip OHS (<86cm apart) with no obvious nerve impingement; and certainly no evidence of any numbness afterwards. I haven't trained for this. I just had a go and it was okay. If my rough calcs are not too far out, my hands were 45cm closer together and my arms went from almost 50º away from vertical to only 22º from vertical. That's pretty cool because at 48, I'm no spring chicken. Improved hip flexibility played a part too as that has helped me to be able to keep a more upright torso.

My advice to anyone would be to do as Mike suggested (ie. stay away from exercises that seem to put the body into compromising positions) but work on flexibility/mobility instead and then periodically come back to the ones that you feel you would like to be able to do and give them another shot.

Many sports and strength related activities take their toll on shoulders and really tighten them up, so I think it is vital to have a regular stretching/mobility routine to help them stay supple.

Shoulders are a tricky joint, though, as they're already one of the most mobile in the body, and what people need is not necessarily more mobility per se (at least in the glenohumeral joint itself), but rather (dynamic) stability. As another example, I was actually doing daily internal rotation stretches as they "felt good" on my shoulders, since I noticed the left shoulder tightening up at the time. I actually think I might have created a situation in which a tear was more possible..

That said, people do tend to have very tight internal rotators (which include the pecs, front delts, lats, and subscapularis), and some work there is almost certainly warranted. Sometimes the problem is also probably more mobility in the thoracic spine, since if you lack that, you tend to compensate by moving too much at the shoulder joint.
 
Shoulders are a tricky joint, though, as they're already one of the most mobile in the body, and what people need is not necessarily more mobility per se (at least in the glenohumeral joint itself), but rather (dynamic) stability. As another example, I was actually doing daily internal rotation stretches as they "felt good" on my shoulders, since I noticed the left shoulder tightening up at the time. I actually think I might have created a situation in which a tear was more possible..

That said, people do tend to have very tight internal rotators (which include the pecs, front delts, lats, and subscapularis), and some work there is almost certainly warranted. Sometimes the problem is also probably more mobility in the thoracic spine, since if you lack that, you tend to compensate by moving too much at the shoulder joint.

Yes, I suppose a better way to put it would be to develop strength and stability through a full range of motion.

With shoulders, it's so often the case that ROM is limited in some way. Gymnasts require insanely strong and flexible shoulders, which they develop from an early age. I'm not convinced they have the same kind of issues that the average weight trainers so often seem to have. While their training is very hard on their shoulders, they are free from excessive amounts of bench pressing. In my case, I find weighted-dips are far kinder on my shoulders than benching. If I stop benching my shoulder issues go away for the most part.

You also highlight an important case against (aggressively) stretching some things which may, in fact, need only a little stretching. Some stretches seem to do more to compromise the integrity of a joint than to aid development of strength and stability through a full ROM.

Finding out what is an acceptable ROM for any particular joint would seem like a good place to start. Have you come across any texts that describe this sort of thing? I guess it would require a reasonably large sample population size to be of much use.
 
Yes, I suppose a better way to put it would be to develop strength and stability through a full range of motion.

With shoulders, it's so often the case that ROM is limited in some way. Gymnasts require insanely strong and flexible shoulders, which they develop from an early age. I'm not convinced they have the same kind of issues that the average weight trainers so often seem to have. While their training is very hard on their shoulders, they are free from excessive amounts of bench pressing. In my case, I find weighted-dips are far kinder on my shoulders than benching. If I stop benching my shoulder issues go away for the most part.

You also highlight an important case against (aggressively) stretching some things which may, in fact, need only a little stretching. Some stretches seem to do more to compromise the integrity of a joint than to aid development of strength and stability through a full ROM.

Finding out what is an acceptable ROM for any particular joint would seem like a good place to start. Have you come across any texts that describe this sort of thing? I guess it would require a reasonably large sample population size to be of much use.

Good thoughts, sir, though I have not come across such a thing. I honestly think it's largely guesswork, and in my own case, I followed the popular trend of sleeper stretches that a lot of gurus were espousing. Oops.

I agree about dips, I'd probably be using them as my primary pushing exercise if they didn't annoyingly irritate the hell out of my sternum now. If/when I get that to somehow go away, it's probably the main push I'd re-pursue.
 
10 day SD (a week of which I was on vacation) complete. Bodyweight low, calories being cranked way up (3000+), attempting to reincorporate bench pressing (since it didn't seem any worse than dumbbell bench pressing), starting conservatively on the weights, and getting back to my roots with 3x per week full body training. Why full body vs. my upper/lower? I am hypothesizing that the single thing I seem to respond best to, overall, is frequency, based on looking at results/strength using different routines over the years. In that it's default HST to do it this way anyways, who am I to reinvent the wheel?

Full Body - Day 1, Week 1

High Bar Squats (oly shoes)
Warmup
160 x 10,10 (belt)

Close-Grip Bench Press (first rep paused, other reps touch and go)
Warmup
135 x 10,10

Chins
Warmup
Me + 20 x 10,10

45 Degree Lateral Raises
8 x 10,10 per side

Cable Rows
115 x 10,10

Leg Curls
70 x 10,10

Calf Raises
155 x 10,10

Dumbbell Side-Lying External Rotations
5 x 25/side

Notes:

Besides feeling reasonably weak after coming off of lower calories/bodyweight, this session felt pretty good. For the time being I think I'm going to try to give my oly shoes a good shake, since I like the feeling of more upright posture inherent in them for high bar squats. I am also experimenting with my ****tier/thinner belt in squats. I actually use this belt already for deadlifts because it seems to allow me to better maintain a neutral spine (versus my thicker lever belt), so I figure the same logic should apply to squats.

Speaking of which, if such a thing is possible, I almost felt like my adductors, hamstrings, and glutes were sore IMMEDIATELY after my two sets of squats. I could literally feel the strain, probably because I haven't done a work set of squats in the better part of 2 months. I am also doing primarily touch and go bench based on the observation that consistently doing pause reps allows me to accidentally "relax" a little at the bottom, which might contribute to joint laxity/shoulder issues.
 
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Solid routine. I too always seem to have best results with fullbody 3x/week. I always seem to go back to it. The best part about fullbody frequent workouts, is that if I miss a workout here and there due to fatigue or scheduling, it's still relatively frequent training.
 
Full Body - Day 2, Week 1

High Bar Squat (Chucks)
Warmup
165 x 10,10 (belt)

Close-Grip Bench Press (first rep paused)
Warmup
140 x 10,10

Chins
Warmup
Me + 25 x 10,10

Shoulder Prehab
45 Degree Lateral Raises - 5 x 25/side
Side-Lying External Rotations - 5 x 25/side

Cable Rows
Warmup
120 x 10,10

Hip Abduction Machine
110 x 10,10

Calf Raise Stack
162.5 x 10,10

Notes:

So, I lied about the shoes. I recently bought a pair of Chuck Taylor lo-tops that I really like that look like this:

http://www.famousfootwear.com/ProductImages/shoes_ia71201.jpg

So I gave them a shot in squatting, and sure enough, I think I still feel tighter with flat shoes at the bottom of a squat (less GM-y). So, whatever, the weight is still light enough where I can experiment.

I decided to point out that my bench press form is really more close-grip ish with a tuck, as I find this the friendliest on the shoulder. I feel it most strongly in my delts and triceps, which is by design. If I had to prescribe a single barbell bench variant for strength/shoulder health, it'd probably be this, as per Jim Wendler and Paul Carter logic.
 
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As another post I thought I'd describe my logic for weight selection and some ways I'm planning on autoregulating my HST cycles. One of the problems I've had in the past is that squat 10 RM's can be too close to working weights in 5's in stuff like squats, probably because squats can be pushed uniquely hard with some rest between reps, becoming almost a form of rest/pause compared to other exercises which see the prime movers actively fatiguing the whole time (e.g. most upper body stuff). As such, a quick and dirty scheme I came up with to keep the working weights in an HST cycle in the ~60-85% range is to use %-based lifts, giving you the option of repping stuff out the final day of a given block. There are a few assumptions that might need tweaking per individual, and even between lifts. From experimentation, I've found the following chart to hold generally true:

100% of 1 RM = 1 RM (duh)
90% of 1 RM = ~3 RM
85% of 1 RM = ~5 RM
80% of 1 RM = ~7-8 RM
75% of 1 RM = ~10 RM
70% of 1 RM = ~12 RM
65% of 1 RM = ~15 RM

As such, instead of basing blocks on the absolute limit weights for a rep range (in the case above 75% for 10's or 85% for 5's), I'd do something like this...

2 sets of 10
Day 1 = 60% of 1 RM, Day 2 = 62%, Day 3 = 64%, Day 4 = 66%, Day 5 = 68%, Day 6 (final day of that block) = 70%.

So we're ~5% away from a limit set of 10 on the final day. This gives us the option to either go for that 2 sets of 10 if we're feeling mediocre (and this should be possible even on a bad day), or maybe just drop to a single set and cautiously rep out (maybe an RPE of ~9, i.e. not attempting any reps we're unsure about but cautiously pushing it to see where we're at). So say for example I was able to use 15 reps for bench or something, I might recalibrate the 5's based on this fact. As such, it allows a little bit of autoregulation into an HST cycle while keeping the load significant but submaximal.

5's, then, are another block like this:

Day 1 = 3 sets of 5 @ 70%, Day 2 = 3 sets of 5 @ 72%, etc and Day 6 = 3 sets of 5 @ 80%.

Same deal here. We're still ~5% away from a real 5 RM at the end of the block, so we should be capable of this even on a bad day, but if we want, we can cautiously rep things out, which is fun.

This also gives us an easy option to extend the cycle without resorting to triples or negatives. Since we're only at 80%, we could cautiously proceed with ~1-3 sets of 5 for a couple/few weeks until we hit real 5 RM's. At which point we now have true 5 RM's for our next cycle, and can program it accordingly after a short SD (say ~7-10 days).

The last idea I had to make the SD work slightly better (I sometimes accidentally irritate stuff after SD's, strength loss aside), is to take one day in the middle of the SD (~5 days in, say) and simply work up to a single at your established 5 RM in your primary lifts (so probably your squat, primary push, primary pull, and maybe deadlift). Since you're only working up to a single with your 5 RM, this isn't even close to limit weights. Volume, by definition, is extremely low, so it shouldn't impact your sensitivity to loading too much. But it would also keep you used to pushing some weights. This, of course, is purely optional, but I think might work well for people who find that SD's are too much of a hindrance for forward progress.
 
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Looks like you are going to run 2 sets during the 10's and 3 sets during the 5's....am I correct?

Taking Bench work for example what does your warmup sets look like before your 2 sets of say 135?

I know you recently had some shoulder issues and my last workout cycle caused me some shoulder issues as well.
 
Great explanation, Mikey. I really like the scientific approach you take to planning your training. I often get to my respective 15, 10 and 5 rep maxes and realize that I could have likely done more... which means I'm likely not maximizing my training all the way along. Testing maxes and planning ahead is the only way to ensure that the loads are planned properly for maximum effect.
 
Looks like you are going to run 2 sets during the 10's and 3 sets during the 5's....am I correct?

Taking Bench work for example what does your warmup sets look like before your 2 sets of say 135?

I know you recently had some shoulder issues and my last workout cycle caused me some shoulder issues as well.

Yep, 2 sets of 10 and then 3 sets of 5 are my planned sets/reps for 3x per week. If I dropped to 2x per week on an upper/lower split (always possible in the future) I'd probably make it 3 sets of 10 and 4-5 sets of 5, as the total weekly volume would be approximately the same.

The warmup depends on the exercise, some exercises I need very little in, others I use more. For something like bench, I will generally do the empty bar for a few sets of a few reps, until things feel good. Then I'll repeat that with 95, then 135, and then finally my working weight.

So it might be

Bar x 5 (a little stiff)
Bar x 5 (feels good)
95 x 3 (feels fine)
135 x 1-3 (feels fine)
140 x 10,10

Something like the above.

For something like chins, which usually feel good immediately, I'll just warm up with my bodyweight for ~3-5 reps and then jump to working weights. Smaller iso stuff I don't even warm up (e.g. calves or something like hip abduction).
 
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Great explanation, Mikey. I really like the scientific approach you take to planning your training. I often get to my respective 15, 10 and 5 rep maxes and realize that I could have likely done more... which means I'm likely not maximizing my training all the way along. Testing maxes and planning ahead is the only way to ensure that the loads are planned properly for maximum effect.

Indeed. One of the things I've tried to do since experimenting with HST again is to figure out how to program around some of the obstacles I encounter. One of those was what I described above, that RM's for squats left the spacing between rep ranges a little too narrow.

One of the things I like about Wendler's 5/3/1 is the idea of autoregulating your target, i.e. the way the sets/reps work is that you're pretty much guaranteed the reps on even a bad day, with the option to capitalize for even more reps on good days. He does this by using %-based programming, basically, using a training max 90% of your actual max. In my case, I figure leaving a ~5% buffer between the end of blocks and true maxes should allow you to autoregulate your efforts, either getting in some nice volume (2 sets of 10 at 70% or 3 sets of 5 at 80%, both of which are significant, if submaximal) or maybe even going for a RP PR once every ~2-3 weeks (depending on whether you did default 2 week blocks in a full body split or 3 week blocks like I had been doing upper/lower) if you're feeling extra spunky.
 
I like Wendler's percentage based weight calculations. Takes away any guess work and allows you to plan your weight progression for several cycles before a reset is necessary. I also like the idea of setting a training max (tm) based on your real max and then solely use the tm for your calculations. This ensures you have that buffer you mention. Never go to failure whilst being able to push a bit extra on good days. This is something I'll definitely implement with my next HST cycle when I'm finished with the 5/3/1 BBB challenge.
 
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