More sets?

S

sphillip40

New Member
Well, i've been doing HST for a few cycles now (albeit lower calories than normal lately). I only do one set per exercise (9-10 per workout) for every stage and I'm always decently sore. I only do 3/week. I've seen a number of routines though sporting as much as 3 sets even in post 5's. I personally like to add a dropset to 3 or 4 exercises but that is as far as i go. Why are peeps doing so many sets? Could i be missing out? Maybe if i were eating on the plus side, i could do more without getting as sore? I'm about pooped though in the post 5's doing a set of squats or heavy bench. Another full-out effort just isn't going to happen after that... but i see 3 sets! What am i missing?

Thanks.
 
Volume is a personal thing. If you are getting sore most of the time, you probably don't need more volume, but personally, I don't see much harm in pushing it a little bit. Try adding an extra set to some of your compounds and see how it goes. Usually you don't really need to increase volume though unless you aren't getting very good results anymore.
 
Well, before you go and start adding sets, consider what the HST FAQ has to say:

"Increase volume if:

You are never sore
You are never tired
You are not growing

Maintain volume if:

You are slightly sore most of the time
You are tired enough to sleep well, but not so tired you lose motivation to train.
You are noticeably “fuller”

Decrease volume if:

You are experiencing over use pain, and strain symptoms in joints and/or muscles.
You are tired and irritable all the time, yet don’t sleep well.
Strength levels are significantly decreasing. "

Since you say that you are decently sore throughout your HST cycles, I wouldn't add more sets. Just my $0.02, though.
 
Thanks for the replies. I guess i'm just far out from needing to add extra sets, i'm still pretty new to HST after all. I guess the other question that was in the back of my mind during the original post was why increase sets if you can increase weight? That's what I do every new cycle (more sets never come into mind here). But i think i know the answer to that already... you do hit a point where you just can't safely increase weight anymore - or is it that your strength isn't going up as fast so you add sets to increase volume, following the FAQ guidelines?

Thanks
 
I think most often, the vexing question is: How much work should we be doing thoughout the cycle? The Faq provides the means for answering that question--the answer will always be on an individual basis.

I'm not quite certain what you are saying about progressing the load. I mean, the loads are already progressing during the cycle regardless of the number of sets we use. Once we cannot further increase the weights, we jump into negatives, and eventually SD.
 
When you see people talking about 3 or more sets per bodypart, you have to consider their weightlifting experience. Generally, experienced lifters need to do a little more "to overcome years of RBE", as The Bryan states it in the FAQ.

Nevertheless, you know that everybody needs to manage their own training. If you are experiencing decent growth with 1 set only, then by all means stick with it. That's even better, because it means you can do less and still be able to grow.

And yes, the primary stimulus is load and not volume. But you can't go heavy all of the time, so you may compensate for that by increasing volume a bit, especially when the weights are very light.

Hope this helps a bit,
Dimitris
 
also the recomendation is
1set 15s
2sets 10s
3sets 5s
that way the volume stays roundabout the same through the cycle.ie..15,20,15.
 
Be glad you dont need to add extra sets!!!

Sounds like you are not that conditioned to weights, which is a good thing, us veterans who have been doing this for a while have to SD just to get a similar response to what you have already so enjoy it.

I would not increase volume until you need to. I dont know your background or training expierence but I am guess you are pretty new to lifting 2 years or less?

It its not broke dont fix it sounds like you are fatique at the end of the workout plus sore the next day.

Sounds like you are doing just the right amount for your body.

If you must expierement with more volume try it towards the end of a cycle before a SD.

I am one of the guys who you have seen uses more volume.

I go as high as 4 sets on back and chest. However everything else is normal HST sets.

Also you have to understand the specific reasoning for me doing this, a) its for a lagging bodypart which is chest for me, and B) or secondly I have been lifting for 11 years and I was already accustomed to training more than the average lifter.

I tell you all this to just give you some small insight on maybe why some of the guys here use more volume.


Hope this helps, and also one last thing that I have to remind myself even after 11 years of training and that is dont replace quality with quantity.

let us know how it goes...

my 2 cents. Joe :D
 
Thanks, you guys really do take the time to reply with plenty of information and you don't flame me for being a newb.  That's why I like reading this forum.
I can see adding more sets in during the first week of a phase and then dropping down to 1 set the second week with my current conditioning.  I usually just go with a full 2 second on the neg on most exercises when the weight is light to really feel the burn... but i could probably push myself a little at least on the compounds and take on another set at regular pace.  I usually don't go into the next training day really sore, just somewhat sore in certain areas only.
I've been on and off, 2-3 years of lifting and on HST since July, where i made my biggest gains.  My mom didn't see me since last Christmas and we recently visited.  She thought i'd lost some weight but in reality, i gained about 20lbs since then(not all on HST, half was str routine in spring).  I really like HST and plan on sticking with it until i can't lift no more.
Nav: What i meant with increasing the weight was that i increase my rep maxes for each phase, making the new phase have a higher volume, still keeping me sore.  Sry for the confusion.
"to overcome years of RBE", as The Bryan states it in the FAQ: I must have missed that.  I have read certain parts of the FAQ... okay, i'll be a good HST lifter and will re-read it this weekend  
tounge.gif

Faz: I don't know, i still can't see me doing my 5RM 3 times anytime in the near future and still coming back the next training day.  I'm sure i'll have to though if i keep lifting and keep it serious.  Thanks for the info.
Joe:  Thanks!  Yes, it does help to understand this all better.  I should clarify one thing though.  I do multiple sets per body part but they are different:
Mil. pull up
Chin up
DB row
DB bench
Machine fly's
Overhead DB press
Shrugs
ATF squats
Leg curls
This most of the routine (there is more though) just to show that i do multiple exercises, just one set each.  I also throw in drop sets in 5's and post 5's.
Cool, this pretty much clears me up, thanks for the help.
-Shannon
 
If I were you I would drop the mutiple exercises and stick with just one exercise per muscle group. I am pretty sure everyone on the forum will back me up on this. Give this a try and see how it goes for a cycle. Concentration on increasing the load and if time permits frequency. This is what I would suggest

incline bench press
Rows
shoulder press
Squats

Sounds to simple but hey if you hit those big 4 you will grow.

If you must use mutiple exercises do it on the 2nd day.

Say A B A split routine were A is done on Monday B on Wed. and A on FRiday and repeat.

I think by sticking to compounds and concentration on increasing load and frequency you will GROW!!!!
 
I agree with Joe. I use A & B workouts:

A: Squats, incline bench, bent rows, standing press, shrugs.
B: Deadlifts, weighted dips, weighted chins, press, shrugs.
 
Oh, my routine was somewhat based on Blade's routine (reduced a bit). I do have to admit though, my upper/mid back feels fairly 'tense' all of the time during a cycle (maybe a bit much) and my forearms are nearly always sore (the bad kind of sore).

I'll cut my routine down then; i just finished my 15's and I can keep going into 10's, just with a reduced plan:

A:
ATF squats (Alt)
Pull ups
DB bench
DB rows
DB over-head shoulder press
Calf raises
DB incline seated curls (up until my 5RM, then dropped for post 5's)

B:
Deadlifts (from beginning of 10's on, ATF squats during 15's) (Alt)
Pull ups
DB bench
DB over head shoulder press
Calf raises
DB incline seated curls (up until my 5RM, then dropped for post 5's)

I think this will still be comprehensive enough for me to be okay with mentally. For instance, calves don't look all that good on me and training them frequently seems to be a must in my book (they are getting better).

For A day, pull ups will widen my back while DB rows will give it depth. On B day, deadlifts will give it depth so i dropped the rows all together on that day. I dropped shrugs all together from my routine; got confirmation from a friend that heavy deads and shoulder presses will still keep my traps in good form (so i'm okay with this... maybe i should have shrugs in until 5RM?). I never liked those machine fly's anyways... bye bye.

Joe.Muscle, do you think this looks a bit better? I know that you don't like the iso's but 1 set of curls seems to help fill them out before post 5's. After that, the compounds do the trick. I used to never use curls until i realized that.

Now, doing a routine like the one above, i can see myself doing multiple sets more often.
 
Well, just an FYI. I started the 10's today with the routine above. I really liked it; i did 2 sets of everything and will track fatigue levels and adjust volume according to the FAQ. Sorry for being a pain in the butt... once i get something stuck in my head, i keep picking at it. I should just follow the FAQ whenever in doubt. I think i'm going to really like a reduced routine... let's me focus more (i know, probably mental).

Thanks again.
 
FYI on Blades routine. It is very effective for blade b/c he is conditioned lifter with some extra help.

I would not think his routine is ideal for natural lifter. I think he would prob say the same thing.

Just a thought?
 
I'm going to add my thoughts and /or routine. I'm natural too  
  1) Lunges: 2 sets Every other workout I do squats.
     I do these differently due to lack of area, but very effective! Starting with either leg forward I hold onto 50 lb dumbells keeping the foot forward and keeping it out NOT steping back or walking forward, but staying in one spot. I go up and down for 15 reps then I change footing possition and repeat.
  2) Straight leg dead lifts: 2 sets
      60 lb. dumbells
   3) Incline bench:      2 sets
   4) flat bench:          1 set
   5) Pulldowns:           2 sets
   6) seated rows:       1 set
   7) Shrugs                2 sets
   8) Shoulder press     1 set
   9) side lateral raise   1 set
  10) rear delts            1 set
  11) skull crushers       3 sets  supper set with
  12) hammer curls       3 sets
  13) calf raises seated  3 sets
  14) abs                    
   Every other workout I switch exercises.
   1/2 hr. before working out I take Swole v2 and creatine monohy.  and within 1/2 hr of exercising after my shower  I take creatine mono + L glutamine + whey protien.
 
my cycle is very similar to yours harleymon except i do two sets for f/bench s/press and rows, i think it is enough for a natural lifter,i stopped using creatine resulting in slightly less strength/stamina and the loss of 5/6 pounds,
 
I have increased my sets since my last cycles because i like it so far
example:
15 1/2 sets
10 2/4 sets
5 3/5 sets
 
Hi sphilip40

Welcome to HST! :D

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Thanks, you guys really do take the time to reply with plenty of information and you don't flame me for being a newb.
Click to expand...

Thsi is not your normal "run of the mill" BB site!
laugh.gif


We'd like to think ourselves as a classy bunch of people who are here to help newbies and each other reagrdless of how much we think we know.

Flaming newbies is waaaaaay out of line here, whoever does that is bound to get him or herself flamed badly!

Anyhoo, thought I would just add my welcome, not much left for me to add, and by now you have already adjusted your program to the basic requirements.

Many of us use the 1-2-3 sets setup as we progress up the program through the 15/10/5 setup, I have personally tried the 1 set only setup and never really got anywhere, also the eating part is darn important, else you quickly reach stagnation and it is all because you are not eating enough (talking in the third person here).
happy.gif


Anyhoo, enjoy the lifting.
 
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