Need some advice about volume

[HST_Rihad]

Also, it is important to look at weekly volume. If you are doing a once/week split, and doing 9 sets for back, you are doing the same volume as if you were doing 3x/week fullbody with 3 sets/workout for back.

But it's different, the article talked about the necessary volume per session (workout) to stimulate ongoing growth (?). But I can tell you I do keep progressing by doing much less, especially on 5's. So perhaps 30-60 at 75-85% is guaranteed to allow you to grow but is not necessarily required to keep growing, at least not at my relatively lower training age

I agree with you HST_Rihad that as long as you are seeing increases on the bar, and you are hitting it 3x/week, then lowish volume is the way to go.

Couldn't agree more

 

[HST_Rihad]

I'm going to reassess during the 5s and I'm leaning more toward 30 total reps for each muscle group rather than the higher. But my point in our discussions was that absurdly high volume is not necessary just because you are advanced. Previously, I was doing my base of 30-60 reps and then up to 80 reps per muscle group on top of that. It worked and I thought it was optimal but now that I've cut volume back, I'm gaining better than with the higher volume.

Assuming you're doing clusters with your 5RM load and assuming 3 minute rest, only bench presses would require at least half an hour. I wonder how much time you spend in the gym to cover your whole body? And do you do that 3 times a week?

 

[Joe.Muscle]

Your worrying to much about the perfect rep count. Which is perfectly normal I do this myself a lot of times as well. Sometimes the more you read and learn it becomes harder to keep it simple.

I would always start on the low end of volume and work up only when need be.

If you can grow off of 1 set then why do 2 sets.... See what I mean.

Also you have to realize these studies are again taking into account what's optimal.

You can grow on less than 30 reps.

A lot of the experts recommend anywhere from 25 to 50 total reps per session.

The heavier the load the less total reps you need due to fiber recruitment. The lighter the load more sets you can do and etc.

When you really start thinking or obsessing over this Blade myo-reps are a genius way to train with auto regulation.

He has created a template regardless of the load that basically tells you how much to do in terms of total reps.

 

[Totentanz]

Assuming you're doing clusters with your 5RM load and assuming 3 minute rest, only bench presses would require at least half an hour. I wonder how much time you spend in the gym to cover your whole body? And do you do that 3 times a week?

No, I'm not a pansy so I can still get it done in roughly an hour, as long as I'm not doing deadlifts. Those are the only thing that really take up a lot of time. Unlike some people, when I get to a second set and it is tough, I am able to mentally push myself through the set and finish it anyway. If you've never done max singles on deadlifts, this is a skill you might not have acquired.

 

[Jester]

Assuming you're doing clusters with your 5RM load and assuming 3 minute rest, only bench presses would require at least half an hour. I wonder how much time you spend in the gym to cover your whole body? And do you do that 3 times a week?

Too mush stressing. You'll gain a better comprehension if you just try it yourself and figure out how it's done, what mental & physical capacity it takes.

Also, 30 reps at 5RM load feels excessive to me, maybe not for legs but definitely for upper body.

 

[HST_Rihad]

No, I'm not a pansy so I can still get it done in roughly an hour, as long as I'm not doing deadlifts. Those are the only thing that really take up a lot of time. Unlike some people, when I get to a second set and it is tough, I am able to mentally push myself through the set and finish it anyway. If you've never done max singles on deadlifts, this is a skill you might not have acquired.

Have you tried decreasing volume for the sake of increasing load for bench presses? I'm not saying you should do this, but considering you're shooting at 30 reps 3 times a week tells me you're training for endurance more than for size. I mean increase the load and drop volume to 25, then add a bit more and drop to 20, and see how it goes. PlateMate or similar might come in handy for smallish weight increases.

 

[HST_Rihad]

Too mush stressing. You'll gain a better comprehension if you just try it yourself and figure out how it's done, what mental & physical capacity it takes.

Also, 30 reps at 5RM load feels excessive to me, maybe not for legs but definitely for upper body.

I certainly will, I just don't see the need for that yet. Unknowingly I AM doing clusters with my 4-5RM loads, it's just that total volume is limited to 4-9 reps and frequency kept at 3 times a week. I still seem to be making progress, don't know how long it will last, but right now I don't want to increase volume unnecessarily (horizontal progression), preferring load increases (vertical progression) while sticking to HST guidelines.

 

[Totentanz]

Have you tried decreasing volume for the sake of increasing load for bench presses? I'm not saying you should do this, but considering you're shooting at 30 reps 3 times a week tells me you're training for endurance more than for size. I mean increase the load and drop volume to 25, then add a bit more and drop to 20, and see how it goes. PlateMate or similar might come in handy for smallish weight increases.

30 reps for a muscle group using a load in the 5 to 10 RM range is not endurance work.

If I wanted to increase my bench press, I for sure would not use that method. If I were interested strictly in strength, I definitely wouldn't do anywhere near that many reps with my working load.

 

[Sci]

Have you tried decreasing volume for the sake of increasing load for bench presses? I'm not saying you should do this, but considering you're shooting at 30 reps 3 times a week tells me you're training for endurance more than for size. I mean increase the load and drop volume to 25, then add a bit more and drop to 20, and see how it goes. PlateMate or similar might come in handy for smallish weight increases.

This is just plain ignorance. 30 reps, 3x/week is near ideal for bodybuilding training, and certainly has nothing to do with endurance training...considering he is training with anywhere between 60-90% of his 1RM. Endurance? No. I think your brain is overheated.

 

[HST_Rihad]

30 reps for a muscle group using a load in the 5 to 10 RM range is not endurance work.

If I wanted to increase my bench press, I for sure would not use that method. If I were interested strictly in strength, I definitely wouldn't do anywhere near that many reps with my working load.

Yeah, I may or may not have misinterpreted this part:

One way to overcome to RBE is to increase the load and/or increase the time that the muscle
tissue is exposed to the load. In other words, increase the weight and/or the volume. Both are
limited by the CNS. The later is limited by the CNS’s ability to fire up the muscle and maintain
contractions at a given intensity (i.e. endurance). The former is limited by the individual’s
“strength”.

So you are actually training for muscle growth, but choose to pick the type of progression which enhances endurance along the way, not strength per se. So it's either load or volume you're increasing, both aiming at mass gains. If you can keep up the frequency, good job. It's not that if you dropped volume for the sake of increasing loads, you would all of a sudden start training for strength. It's just that you would be approaching mass gains from the other perspective.

Sci, I wasn't asking for your opinion.

 

[Jester]

Why does it feel like the same thing is being discussed in 8 threads at once? ... if it isn't trying to 'clean bulk' it's how to find the specific # of reps for every day the universe keeps on spinning ... if it isn't that it's talking about isolation exercises and pretending they're as good as moving actual mass ... if not that then it's what Borge/Blade said when he popped out of the womb ...





Less mini-planning, more lifting & eating. There's only so much that can be discussed that will relate in a meaningful and pragmatic outcome.

 

[Old and Grey]

Less mini-planning, more lifting & eating.

Amen Mate! I am starting to remember why I disappeared for a couple of years.

 

[Sci]

Amen Mate! I am starting to remember why I disappeared for a couple of years.

The logs are interesting. I enjoy keeping up with my own log anyway, and checking other logs for progress.

 

[Jester]

The logs are interesting. I enjoy keeping up with my own log anyway, and checking other logs for progress.

Sure, but recent posts filled with endless quotes from Blade and as Totetanz said, (paraphrasing) 'attrition-style conversation that ultimately just attempts to twist two differing viewpoints to be conducive to each other' are just really annoying.

And to make matters worse, there's pretty much nothing in these discussions about volume, diet, work-done vs set-reps etc that wasn't discussed ad nauseum 5-6years ago.