hmmm i was curious about something, what would be considered the STRONGEST isolation tricep exercise? lying bb tri extensions/skullz? i'm thinking of adding 1 set of isos, BB curls (that's the strongest iso movement for bis yeah?), and possibly tricep pushdowns. other exercises (OH DB tricep extension, skullcrushers etc) bother my elbows when getting up to heavier weights...
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Barring your injuries, I'd say skulls rule, but it's a matter of personal preferences, borne of ROM flexion in the individual for the individual movement and built strengths. We tend to "like" the thing we're strongest at, when it's often our weakest exersize that we need to be doing. But I digress; whatever keeps you in the gym. Competitors go thru a LOT more diligence and sacrifice than we.
I'd say db curls over BB. Why? Synergistic musculature used to keep them balanced and in line. The bar allows for a more isolate pull. You may find yourself stronger on the bar, but the better hypertrophy IMO would be db's.
Now, considering injuries; whatever works. If you get no pain with french presses, by all means, rock on Garth! I have found that you can alter your path or grip by just inches and alleviate pain in many cases. You'll just have to experiment. If all you want to do is impress the chicks at the gym, cambered bar presses behind the head (or french) will allow the 45's to be loaded and it looks like you're really doing something, right?
Here's some examples of slightly different tri exersizes to "tri" out:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ridgely16.htm
I'd say db curls over BB. Why? Synergistic musculature used to keep them balanced and in line. The bar allows for a more isolate pull. You may find yourself stronger on the bar, but the better hypertrophy IMO would be db's.
Now, considering injuries; whatever works. If you get no pain with french presses, by all means, rock on Garth! I have found that you can alter your path or grip by just inches and alleviate pain in many cases. You'll just have to experiment. If all you want to do is impress the chicks at the gym, cambered bar presses behind the head (or french) will allow the 45's to be loaded and it looks like you're really doing something, right?
Here's some examples of slightly different tri exersizes to "tri" out:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ridgely16.htm
I
imported_dawaro
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(quadancer @ Jun. 04 2008,1:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'd say skulls rule
I'd say db curls over BB. Why? Synergistic musculature used to keep them balanced and in line. The bar allows for a more isolate pull. You may find yourself stronger on the bar, but the better hypertrophy IMO would be db's.</div>
I have found that I get a much better effect and less elbow pain when I do tri-ext behind my head rather than to it. I do them as they are desribed on the AST website. Tricep Extensions
Doing them this way I get a greater ROM. It is just a personal preference but I thought I would throw it out there. Someone may try it and also like it.
I have not done them very much but I have read several articles that claim doing db curls on an incline bench is also very effective. The incline increases the ROM and the stretch of the muscle. This may also be an alternative you want to take a look at. I am going to try them if I include any arm iso's in my next cycle.
(quadancer @ Jun. 04 2008,1:18)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I'd say skulls rule
I'd say db curls over BB. Why? Synergistic musculature used to keep them balanced and in line. The bar allows for a more isolate pull. You may find yourself stronger on the bar, but the better hypertrophy IMO would be db's.</div>
I have found that I get a much better effect and less elbow pain when I do tri-ext behind my head rather than to it. I do them as they are desribed on the AST website. Tricep Extensions
Doing them this way I get a greater ROM. It is just a personal preference but I thought I would throw it out there. Someone may try it and also like it.
I have not done them very much but I have read several articles that claim doing db curls on an incline bench is also very effective. The incline increases the ROM and the stretch of the muscle. This may also be an alternative you want to take a look at. I am going to try them if I include any arm iso's in my next cycle.
I
imported_electric
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I noticed when I do skulls with the arms parallel to the body I get a lot of elbow pain so I need to flare the elbows a bit. Not sure if this is a bad thing but certainly it is better then keep the elbow pain and better then doing nothing. Doing triceps extensions behind the head feel funny on the shoulders.
I am doing the incline db curls and I am liking it. I can really feel the burn on the biceps due to the stretch.
I am doing the incline db curls and I am liking it. I can really feel the burn on the biceps due to the stretch.
I don't do them because they're similar to preacher bench, and that thing killed my tendon insertions, caused me to do baby bicep work for a couple years, and lose what little bicep I had. So for some of us old or injured duffers, a shorter ROM is better if we want to keep lifting at all.
I wish I had a crossover machine with high pulleys. Pulling to the ears is my favorite curl.
I wish I had a crossover machine with high pulleys. Pulling to the ears is my favorite curl.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You may find yourself stronger on the bar, but the better hypertrophy IMO would be db's.</div>
sorry, but to me that doesn't make sense, if there's a stronger isolation exercise for a muscle group compared to a weaker one, the stronger movement is more likely to cause hypertrophy due it simply being a stronger and higher load movement.
am i wrong here?
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Synergistic musculature used to keep them balanced and in line.</div>
does that generally mean more effort per bicep? or more tension required to keep them stably lifted up in a line?
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">rock on Garth!</div>
LOL! wayne's wooorrld! wayne's wooorrld! party tiiime! excelleeent! woowoowoowoo!
sorry, but to me that doesn't make sense, if there's a stronger isolation exercise for a muscle group compared to a weaker one, the stronger movement is more likely to cause hypertrophy due it simply being a stronger and higher load movement.
am i wrong here?
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Synergistic musculature used to keep them balanced and in line.</div>
does that generally mean more effort per bicep? or more tension required to keep them stably lifted up in a line?
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">rock on Garth!</div>
LOL! wayne's wooorrld! wayne's wooorrld! party tiiime! excelleeent! woowoowoowoo!
The bicep is not just one muscle. Isolate different parts of it and you have to do different exersizes, right? IMO, you use more musculature (and hit more) with db's than the more isolate BB. But if you want to spend two hours in every workout, be my guest.
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(_Simon_ @ Jun. 06 2008,6:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You may find yourself stronger on the bar, but the better hypertrophy IMO would be db's.</div>
sorry, but to me that doesn't make sense, if there's a stronger isolation exercise for a muscle group compared to a weaker one, the stronger movement is more likely to cause hypertrophy due it simply being a stronger and higher load movement.
am i wrong here?</div>
Stronger means you can lift more weight. But lifting more weight does not necessarily means better for hypertrophy. You have to count ROM, TUT and real force (vectors and all), if you put yourself in a position that gives more mechanical advantage and leverage you can lift "heavier" but demanding less from your muscles.
DBs usually provide better ROM and due to stabilization activate more muscles in the trained area therefore resulting in a greater overall hypertrophy.
(_Simon_ @ Jun. 06 2008,6:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You may find yourself stronger on the bar, but the better hypertrophy IMO would be db's.</div>
sorry, but to me that doesn't make sense, if there's a stronger isolation exercise for a muscle group compared to a weaker one, the stronger movement is more likely to cause hypertrophy due it simply being a stronger and higher load movement.
am i wrong here?</div>
Stronger means you can lift more weight. But lifting more weight does not necessarily means better for hypertrophy. You have to count ROM, TUT and real force (vectors and all), if you put yourself in a position that gives more mechanical advantage and leverage you can lift "heavier" but demanding less from your muscles.
DBs usually provide better ROM and due to stabilization activate more muscles in the trained area therefore resulting in a greater overall hypertrophy.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">DBs usually provide better ROM and due to stabilization activate more muscles in the trained area therefore resulting in a greater overall hypertrophy.</div>
really?
hmmm, i may consider doing DB curls if this is true.
here's a question, does anyone have any way of transferring RMs from BB curl to a DB curl?
as in, if i don't know my RMs for DB curls, is there a way of finding them out through knowing my BB curl RMs?
they wouldn't be the same exactly, as DB curls are a weaker movement... (keeping in mind, my RMs for BB curls are fairly low lol)
cheers guys for all your help!
really?
hmmm, i may consider doing DB curls if this is true.
here's a question, does anyone have any way of transferring RMs from BB curl to a DB curl?
as in, if i don't know my RMs for DB curls, is there a way of finding them out through knowing my BB curl RMs?
they wouldn't be the same exactly, as DB curls are a weaker movement... (keeping in mind, my RMs for BB curls are fairly low lol)
cheers guys for all your help!
I don't usually fool with many of these "check my routine" threads, but I was enjoying my morning tea (before I start on coffee) and read this. A lot of good suggestions even from the new guys (who appear to be studying) and some minor misconceptions from my perspective. The main thing is that you have to find what works for you; don't think that what works for me is your ticket. Then, when that plateaus, you'll need to try something a bit different to cheat your genetics.
Weighted chins 15 reps total
BB underhand rows 15 reps total
Were it me using only these two for biceps (you wondered about isos after) I'd say that you've used the bicep hard in the early concentric of the lifts, lats finishing. Your best iso following would probably be spider curls or cables, to hit the latter half of the pull. The underhand rows and chins are pretty much the same exersize to the bicep, pulling a weight towards your core center. Spiders pull to the face with tension emphasized in the latter part.
Weighted chins 15 reps total
BB underhand rows 15 reps total
Were it me using only these two for biceps (you wondered about isos after) I'd say that you've used the bicep hard in the early concentric of the lifts, lats finishing. Your best iso following would probably be spider curls or cables, to hit the latter half of the pull. The underhand rows and chins are pretty much the same exersize to the bicep, pulling a weight towards your core center. Spiders pull to the face with tension emphasized in the latter part.
hmmm ah ok, but yeah i still might try DB curls, i haven't done them in a LONG time, so i'll see how they go. i'm still not sure how i will go about with the increments, my 10RM with DB curls is about 8 or 9kg per DB, and my 6RM is about 10.5kg per DB from looking at my history (got it all written down, although i'm most likely stronger than those days now)
HOW would i possibly increment them? or just increase a kilo whenever i can? or maybe just start with them REEEALLY light, like 4kg, and increment up by 1kg every session/second session or something?
? hypertrophic or anti-hypertrophic?
HOW would i possibly increment them? or just increase a kilo whenever i can? or maybe just start with them REEEALLY light, like 4kg, and increment up by 1kg every session/second session or something?
My standard answer: speaker magnets make great plate mates. Otherwise you just run up to your failing weight and cluster the set until you can do it without the cluster on the end. Just don't be hitting the failure rep.
If you haven't done db's in a while (like me) the curls alone should be fine. I'm starting rather low myself this cycle (25lb) but weight is relative to the lifter. I'm no protagonist for failure or fatigue training, but I do think 21's offer a pretty good bang to biceps for the time used. Once a week to failure isn't going to kill you or put you in the hospital. I think 21's are good for the joints too.
If you haven't done db's in a while (like me) the curls alone should be fine. I'm starting rather low myself this cycle (25lb) but weight is relative to the lifter. I'm no protagonist for failure or fatigue training, but I do think 21's offer a pretty good bang to biceps for the time used. Once a week to failure isn't going to kill you or put you in the hospital. I think 21's are good for the joints too.