new to HST critique/advise me on my routine please

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by some_guy, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. some_guy

    some_guy New Member

    hey, im new to the site here and ready to start my first cycle of HST, and would like some advice/ideas for my routine.  anyways heres some background:  im 18 years old, about 5'8", ~150 lbs. ectomorph.  i've been lifting on and off for the last 3 or so years, fairly seriously since school started this fall.  i'm still fairly skinny yet i have put on a decent amount of muscle and am fairly well built for a scrawny ectomorph.  anyways i liked the looks of this program and love that fact that it is acctually based on scientific research.  goin into engineering, i tend to like hard facts, evidence,and research over some guy i dont know's personal experience.
    ok so enough bs, heres theroutine i came up with.
    i have 2 routines that i will alternate between, so as to mix up my exercises a little.
    routine#1
    bench x2
    weighted dips x2
    lat pulldown wide grip x1 narrow grip x1
    upright rows x2
    raises(front,side,back) x2
    preacher curls x2
    1 arm reverse tricep pulldown x2
    squat/w calf raises at the end x2
    leg curls x2
    weighted situps x2
    something to target my obliques x1
    routine #2
    bench x2
    weighted dips x2
    rows narrow grip x1 wide grip x1
    raises(front, sides, back) x2
    hammer curls x2
    tricep pulldown(/w ropes) x2
    calf raises x2
    deadlift /w shrugs at the end x2
    leg curls x2
    weighted situps x2
    something to target my obliques x1
    each routine has 21 sets.  i would do a set of a different type of exersice while resting form the set of the first one to make it go quicker, ex:1 set bench, then 1 set lat pulldown, then back to bench.
    i havent figured out all my maxes(15rm, 10rm, 5rm) yet, but will have them by the end of the week.  then i will have the next week off for spring break and probly do no working out(kinda stratigic deconditioning) and then gaet back at it on the 21st.
    one more question, if im in good shape and not worried about any strains or injuries do i need to do the 15 rep weeks or would i see better gains substituting something else?  thanx.
     
  2. some_guy

    some_guy New Member

    one more thing to add, i will have 7 weeks to complete this cycle, as i want to be done by finals week and use finals week as my week of strategic deconditioning. so if you guys could point me in the right direction as far as what kind of rep scheme would work best. thanks.
     
  3. Tcup

    Tcup New Member

    Your first cycle so don`t modify it. It`s imperative that you include those 15`to the first cycle.

    "if im in good shape and not worried about any strains or injuries do i need to do the 15 rep weeks or would i see better gains substituting something else"

    You should be worried about strains and injuries when they occur!

    Hmm..maybe those routines are not too much but keep in mind that during the cycle you may have to discard some of the movements. You must be able to train hard! Also try to do major sets like squat and SLDL first as you have most energy left. After that you can do isolating moves. Movements like one arm tri pushdown are in my opinion useless. You cannot make good trajectories when doing, lets say 5 max. Try cable or rope pushdowns instead.

    Welcome [​IMG]
     
  4. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Someguy

    I am going to give it a bash :D


    First of all, for starters I think you will be doing too many sets, I'd say concentrate on the coumpounds and do only the essential isolation exercises [​IMG]

    This is because you are not yet acquainted with HST and being a whole body routine, it gets quite taxying on the CNS, thus the idea of doing maximum 2 sets per exercise and minimizing the amount of sets per day to about 12/13 max. [​IMG]

    15's is very importnat as it prepares muscles and specially the joints for later heavier weights by loading these with lactic acid, also if done properly it can lead to strong nausea, whereby we suggest playing around with in-between rest if this happens.

    I like the idea of 1 set bench followed by 1 set of dips and if done like that you can keep it up for the whole 8 week program.

    Personally I don't fancy upright rows that much but that is personal, I'd split this with shoulder raises per workout (front raises are less effective than military presses so i'd do these instead).:p

    I don't see any squats or at least leg presses, these are the main exercises as they would help your body load natural testosterone (specially at your age), they should be alternated with deadlifts (full or sfiff leg) per workout and never done together. [​IMG]

    For obliques, try sitting on a bench at a 45 degree position (upper body) not resting on a bench, grab a fair dumbell (10 or so Kgs) with both hands (arms straight) and swing with all your might to either side stopping without letting the weight ride you and then doing it to the opposite side, it works well, hope I am making myself understood [​IMG]

    That is about it, let's see what you came up with, hey...you are the master of your own decisions though [​IMG] , so this is only an opinion!!!

    Ciao

    Fausto
     
  5. some_guy

    some_guy New Member

    thanks for the input. i do have squats and dead lift hidden in there somewhere. the order i have them inis not the order i would do them in either, i should add. about the 15's now, after reading the site more and more it looks like the only purpose of these is to get your body ready for heavier weight. now ive been lifting steady for the last 2 or 3 months at my 6 or 7 rep max, working till failure, etc.., using most of these same exercises, so i am used to the heavy weight. the reason i want to skip this is because i have only 6 or 7 weeks to finish up this cycle before i get out of school, as i will have to change some stuff for over the summer. so i am basicly wondering if there is any muscle building benifit of doing the 15's or it is just purely for protection from injury. thanks.
     
  6. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    If you want to reduce your cycle, I would cut down to just one week of 15s rather than toss them out completely. Then with 2 weeks of 10s, 2 weeks of 5s and 2 weeks of negs, that would equate to 7 weeks.
     
  7. some_guy

    some_guy New Member

    thats kinda what i was htinkin i guess, i just was wondering how effective the 15's are but i guess ill do the one week of them.

    i have yet another question though, this time concerning the obligatory weight increases. what if i cant increase weight every time? ive been to the gym a few times and got my 10rm and 15rm, and made sure i could finish the whole workout in an hour or less and so far so good except some of my lighter lifts im not going to be able to ad weight every time. example, leg raises, and lat pulldown i do on a machine and they increase by like 10 or even 15 pound increments. also on some of my lighter lifts like raises and curls, it just doesnt seem possible to increase weight every workout. in asituation like this do you just start extra low, or maybe increase overy other or every 3rd workout or what? how much will this hamper gains? thanks for any input on this subject and sorry for all the questions, just trying to make sure i do stuff right.
     
  8. Dood

    Dood New Member

    I agree with Totentanz about the 15's, just do one week of them. They aren't just for joint and tendon conditioning though, the buildup and reduction of lactic acid helps prime the muscle for future growth, metabolic load and all that. Do some searching and you'll find the info if you're interested.
    As far as weight increases, it's fine to just repeat a weight if you have to. RBE doesn't take hold immediately so you'll still get some benefit, especially as the weight gets heavier.
    One other thing I'll throw out as a general rule, concentrate on the big compounds with 2 sets, do less on the isolation work.
    So deads, squats, dips, chins, get two sets, curls, extensions, etc get one. Of course you can change that, but if you need to cut back, that's the way I'd do it.
     
  9. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Some_guy

    As you can see, there is a level of importance to the 15's, but that does not mean that one cannot skip it, use maybe one week, as advised previously just to get things going properly as it is part of the progression [​IMG]

    If you can't increase a weight immediately after the previous workout you can stay on that weight for one maybe two other workouts [​IMG], and then progress, as if you see some of the progression charts there are overlaps as one changes rep schemes.

    It is important to note that progression is important as that is what makes the muscle hypertrophy, i.o.w. microtrauma, a slight damage each time to the muscle cell which increases progressively causing the muscle to adapt by producing new growth [​IMG] , that is in as simple terms as possible.

    Now for the workout, again just an opinion, this is how I do it each time:

    legs/chest/lats/shoulders/biceps/triceps/abs.

    Simple reasoning, legs requires the most effort, chest one needs to be fairly fresh, then lats because of the chin ups, they also need quite a bit of a fresh approach, lastly the abs as they tend to weaken you if you use them first. :)

    For the shoulders, I use what we call biscuits, very small increments of 0.5 Kgs at a time, that is about 1 pound, if you have those then use them, they work well, if not, then repeat the weight and change after a maximum of three workouts (eg: I progress up to 15 - 18 Kgs per d/b starting with about 5kgs or less), this type of progression you need to go up in percentage rather than a set weight and we normally use 5% for isolation, 10% for compounds :confused:

    Remember, if a weight starts getting easy but the next increment is going to make you loose form as it is a bit too heavy, rather always go back to form, then slow down the rep cadence, go to 4x4 seconds or even slower, the weight will then feel heavier and the exercise is performed properly leading to gains.

    Only when one is rather specialized in this should one fool around with partial reps and pulsing as then the form is slightly sacrificed but with the purpose of increasing the load.

    Hope this helps.

    Fausto
     
  10. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    4 sets for the chest each workout seems a bit much if you only have 2 for the upperback&lats.

    My workout goes like this:

    Leg compound, chest, back
    Leg isolation, shoulders, traps
    Calves, tris, bis, forearms
     
  11. MicroBerto

    MicroBerto New Member

    Dude, I have nothing to add technically as far as the HST stuff goes, those guys have it down good.

    All I'm going to say is that in 3 months, I'm finishing my 5th year at school... I don't know how you need to stay motivated, but STICK WITH IT. If I lifted SERIOUSLY for all 5 years, I'd be much bigger and stronger and a faster swimmer. Please stick with it.

    And enjoy your time. I would kill to be 18 again, and do it all over.

    Keep at it, you might not be done growing yet either. I grew another inch and hit 6'0 my freshman year, it just kinda happened. Was very cool since I was 19 when it happened.

    If HST doesn't work for you, it's your diet. I use http://www.fitday.com to monitor EVERYTHING i eat and drink, it helps so much.

    Enjoy! Keep at it and come back here whenever you need motivation.
     
  12. some_guy

    some_guy New Member

    thanks for everyones input and thanks for the encouragement microberto.  motivation isnt much of an issue during school, i look forward  to going to the gym, its kind of a good way to release some stress.  during the summer when im working all day long almost everyday i do get kinda burned out, but we'll see if i cant keep up a good workout pace over this summer.

    one more question, about how much weight do you need as a minimum amount to create hypertrophy? i have read most of the topics in the faq and other post around here but i didnt find much on that except dont go too light and go below the minimum, however it never said what that minimum is.

    when i finish my maxes and get everything finalized ill post it up and let you guys check it over to be sure theres no problems.  thanks again
     
  13. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Some_guy

    [​IMG]

    This is not a easy one, I can only offer a single guideline, maybe Vicious, Blade or even Bryan himself can specify this one a little further, but I believe hypertrophy happens when you are pushing your limits within tiring your CNS, thus the 5 with negs and the 1 to 2 maximum sets, towards the 5's and negatives is when your hypertrophy should really start happening, but theoretically if you look at the program, it should start from the beggining of the cycle, as it works by slowly increasing each time, that is the actual secret I believe to hypertrophy [​IMG]

    As you cause microtrauma in the muscles they start reacting by growing a little more to recover from the strain previously caused [​IMG] , and the HST program is done in such a way that this happens each time you workout because you keep on adding 5 - 10 % weight to the previous workout [​IMG]

    The other big factor is the nutrition, and here I can side with Bryan, what one really needs to do is to ingest 500 - 1500 extra calories in terms of protein than your baseline needs (i.o.w.) what your body requires to maintain its actual muscle content [​IMG] , apart from that creatine, (I believe 5g daily is enough to get you growing) as the body can only store 5g the rest is excreted. ;)

    Last but not least, the good ol' saying in body building, "no pain no gain" and here I am talking about normal DOMS, i.o.w, lactic acid buildup which disappears as you train, and most important of all, patience [​IMG] something yougsters do not possess a lot of, but is really necessary as the growth occurs during rest and not during exercise [​IMG] .

    Thus the required rest time of at least 36 hours if not 48 hours between workouts, that should get you there mate!

    Fausto
     
  14. some_guy

    some_guy New Member

    i've read a little bit on here about doing 1 set of 15's, 2 of the 10's and 3 sets of 5's in order to keep the total number of reps done equal(fairly equal anyways). is this the best route or should i just do 2 sets for the 15's, 10's, and5's? thanks.
     

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