observations
- Thread starter bluejacket
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bluejacket
New Member
not hijack j-sons vince gironda worship thread but...
interesting responses. it seems we all agree that compounds are the key to major body growth and isos can assist once youve found your indiv. weaknesses or areas youd like to prioritize. that is why im usually reluctant to offer up much in the way of specific exer sugg. (outside of compounds). take totz example and mine. if i wrote in looking for help growing traps or calves hed say compounds work out just fine for him. if he wrote in looking for help with tris id say compounds work great for me. wed both be right (for us) but most will need to figure it out for themselves.
sc. muscle. i agree with your approach of mainly compounds until your body/strength has reached a certain level of development and then think more about isos. the only caveat i would add to that is "as long as your body parts are growing" no matter how slowly. from my examples you can see i was growing in all areas but a few with just compounds only. traps really needed my attention but that does not sound like a concern you have but calves may be another story.
the point being is a mainly compound w/o is excellent for growing the whole body but also good at identifing indiv. areas that need extra attention to grow. once identified (give it at least 2-3 cycles) it does no good to ignore it while waiting for the rest of the body to reach your strength goals. say it takes another yr to squat 300. how big will your calves (or whatever body part) be then, all for the want of an extra 5-10 min calf w/o.
personally i dont advocate more than 1-2 isos added to compounds per cycle despite the fact that i have more than 1-2 areas that need help. i usually pick 1 area (the most lacking. for me traps) that gets work for 2-3 cycles in a row while alternating (or just not doing) an iso for bis tri and calves.
anyway, good food for thought.
interesting responses. it seems we all agree that compounds are the key to major body growth and isos can assist once youve found your indiv. weaknesses or areas youd like to prioritize. that is why im usually reluctant to offer up much in the way of specific exer sugg. (outside of compounds). take totz example and mine. if i wrote in looking for help growing traps or calves hed say compounds work out just fine for him. if he wrote in looking for help with tris id say compounds work great for me. wed both be right (for us) but most will need to figure it out for themselves.
sc. muscle. i agree with your approach of mainly compounds until your body/strength has reached a certain level of development and then think more about isos. the only caveat i would add to that is "as long as your body parts are growing" no matter how slowly. from my examples you can see i was growing in all areas but a few with just compounds only. traps really needed my attention but that does not sound like a concern you have but calves may be another story.
the point being is a mainly compound w/o is excellent for growing the whole body but also good at identifing indiv. areas that need extra attention to grow. once identified (give it at least 2-3 cycles) it does no good to ignore it while waiting for the rest of the body to reach your strength goals. say it takes another yr to squat 300. how big will your calves (or whatever body part) be then, all for the want of an extra 5-10 min calf w/o.
personally i dont advocate more than 1-2 isos added to compounds per cycle despite the fact that i have more than 1-2 areas that need help. i usually pick 1 area (the most lacking. for me traps) that gets work for 2-3 cycles in a row while alternating (or just not doing) an iso for bis tri and calves.
anyway, good food for thought.
Gironda wasn't eccentric. He was an alcoholic with a wet brain.
However, even with that problem, he was a great bodybuilder. He just couldn't deal with people.
However, even with that problem, he was a great bodybuilder. He just couldn't deal with people.
Peak_Power
New Member
My take on the whole iso vs compound thing is that load is load, its just that compounds are more efficient.
Bench Press
Military Press
Deadlifts
Chin ups
There, I just worked pretty much every single muscle in my body in 4 compound exercises.
Hard to stretch out so you can charge someone for an hour PT session though... better add in some isos
Bench Press
Military Press
Deadlifts
Chin ups
There, I just worked pretty much every single muscle in my body in 4 compound exercises.
Hard to stretch out so you can charge someone for an hour PT session though... better add in some isos
bluejacket
New Member
<div>
(Peak_Power @ Oct. 04 2006,19:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My take on the whole iso vs compound thing is that load is load, its just that compounds are more efficient.
Bench Press
Military Press
Deadlifts
Chin ups
There, I just worked pretty much every single muscle in my body in 4 compound exercises.
Hard to stretch out so you can charge someone for an hour PT session though... better add in some isos
</div>
wow.
so you only do (and have others do) those 4 exer. in your routine. $50 says you dont.
not trying to be smart a** here but just simply saying compounds work the whole body and thats all you need is the same as saying a 10lb wgt gain while lifting will add an inch to your arms. if its true for you then consider yourself lucky but simply spitting out these short little pearls of wisdom doesnt make it true for everyone.
(Peak_Power @ Oct. 04 2006,19:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My take on the whole iso vs compound thing is that load is load, its just that compounds are more efficient.
Bench Press
Military Press
Deadlifts
Chin ups
There, I just worked pretty much every single muscle in my body in 4 compound exercises.
Hard to stretch out so you can charge someone for an hour PT session though... better add in some isos
wow.
so you only do (and have others do) those 4 exer. in your routine. $50 says you dont.
not trying to be smart a** here but just simply saying compounds work the whole body and thats all you need is the same as saying a 10lb wgt gain while lifting will add an inch to your arms. if its true for you then consider yourself lucky but simply spitting out these short little pearls of wisdom doesnt make it true for everyone.
Besides which, the technique and form you use will effect how it works out those muscles as well. Personally, deadlifts don't really add a whole lot to my quads, but with deads I can add size to my glutes, calves and hams quite readily. Leg development would be lacking without squats.
Chins don't equate to overall back development for me. They tend to hit my lats and biceps but the rest of my back doesn't get much from them. I need bentover rows for the rest of the back.
And so on and so on.
Chins don't equate to overall back development for me. They tend to hit my lats and biceps but the rest of my back doesn't get much from them. I need bentover rows for the rest of the back.
And so on and so on.
Peak_Power
New Member
Yeah of course I was just making a point. I should have put in that to work the muscles those 4 core exercises work, you'd have to do at least 10-12 isolation exercises. You'd prob still get similar growth from the isos if you did them properly, but you'd burn out quicker, and your workout would take too long, and you'd prob get bored.
I think anyone could do those 4 exercises though and get decent growth in most areas, though it wouldn't be a perfect program and does miss some muscle groups, it would be preferable to 10 iso exercises for the same muscles. Not that I have anything against isos for specific body parts.
I'll send you your $50 in the mail
I think anyone could do those 4 exercises though and get decent growth in most areas, though it wouldn't be a perfect program and does miss some muscle groups, it would be preferable to 10 iso exercises for the same muscles. Not that I have anything against isos for specific body parts.
I'll send you your $50 in the mail
bluejacket
New Member
nah, keep the money.
maybe i was being too much of a smart a**. i just get a little worked up when i think im hearing another blanket statement that applies to a few yet is being pedalled as an absolute truth for all. spent way too much time and effort following those back when i knew very little.
maybe i was being too much of a smart a**. i just get a little worked up when i think im hearing another blanket statement that applies to a few yet is being pedalled as an absolute truth for all. spent way too much time and effort following those back when i knew very little.
Peak_Power
New Member
Err... that's 3 words, including the "and"
Now that's being a smartass
Now that's being a smartass