Optimizing muscle to fat gain question

A

ajntorinj

New Member
I am considering the plausibility of the following scenario.

Say person Y consumes 500 kcals/day above maintenance. He gains weight with a muscle to fat ratio of 1/3.
Person Y changes his diet to 1000 + maintenance kcals/day. He then gains with a muscle to fat ratio of 3/1. He then tries 1500 + maintenance kcals/day, and the muscle to fat gain ratio is 2/1 and continually decreasing thereafter.

Is this likely or possible? As a former fatbody, I usually feel like my muscle/fat gains are extremely low when bulking, and I wonder if it could be because I should eat more. "Lean bulks" do not seem to be in favor here, so I am trying to understand how to optimize my diet when bulking.

Thanks in advance, and apologies for inducing any unpleasant algebra word problem flashbacks.
 
what would cause the muscle gains to triple yet fat gains decrease by 2/3rds in your example. other then the addition of 500cals?

i dont have my hands on the info here but if memory serves typically (meaning in most, but not all folks) ones partitioning ratio tends to get slightly worse (meaning more fat then muscle) the more fat that is already "onboard". this, of course is all based on actual bf and bw measurements over time and not just looks and guesses.

like you mentioned slow bulks (usually less then 500+ cals) are ineffective for many but done correctly and for long periods have produced good muscle gains with low/no fat gain. that would be a great p-ratio but its much more work then a simple bulk and can take a looong time. typically many then move to a more tradit. bulk 500-1000+ and of course the p-ratio is not as good but measurable results come quicker and on it goes as the cals, and bw, and fat increase etc etc.

myself, im a former skinny boy (with a crappy p-ratio anyway) so perhaps your genetic predisposition changes things in a way im not familiar with.

again, what is reasoning behind the sudden improvement in p-ratio with the addit. of some more cals?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">what would cause the muscle gains to triple yet fat gains decrease by 2/3rds in your example. other then the addition of 500cals?</div>

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">what is reasoning behind the sudden improvement in p-ratio with the addit. of some more cals?</div>

Well, I am talking about a ratio, so Y's fat gain may have stayed constant, whereas muscle gain increased nine-fold.

The example might be exaggerated and is based on my experiences with seeing my muscle gains exceeded by fat gains. I don't know why it might happen, and I don't have the knowledge to suggest a way that it might occur. I just wonder if it could happen.

You do bring up a good point regarding body fat and partitioning. I usually try to get as lean as possible before a bulk for that reason.

I am doing some reading of Berardi's stuff (when I lurked here more frequently a few years ago, he wasn't thought of so highly, but maybe that has changed). I'm thinking insulin insensitivity might be to blame rather than an insufficient excess of calories.
 
i couldnt say one way or another if it &quot;could&quot; happen but i would think it would be highly unlikely to happen with such a crappy p-ratio at lower cal excess. im familiar with folks experiencing some serious size/strength gains once they dropped a slow bulk minimum excess type of diet (usually 200+ or so) and went to a more serious bulk but usually it was at a 1 to 1 ratio at best(some more &quot;gifted&quot; guys it was more like 2 to 1). i havent seen or heard of folks suddenly gaining 3-5lbs of muscle to every 1lb of fat unless they were gaining at that rate before or drugs were introduced.

perhaps others have some thoughts on this.

i dont think opinions of dr B have improved much although i cant personally say if thats warranted or not. i havent really followed/read any of his stuff in the past few yrs. insuline (in)sensitivity is a possiblity and is actually an area ive been looking into lately but i dont think its going to yield the type of results your example showed. at best im guessing (i can only guess at this point) it will improve your p-ratio (if truely insensitive) but probably not up as high as 3 to 1 and getting a signif. cal excess while seriously limiting one of the 3 macros (the easiest and tastiest one at that) is no small feat.

if you havent been yet, lyles site on bodyrecomposition has a lot of good info on it, especially with carb manipulation, as well as lots of logs and posts of personal exper with all manner of diets and w/os.

good luck
 
It`s PHi, the ratio is PHi, the perfect number...it was designed by God, you know. Dan Brown said so.

(Ken(bluejacket), I`m answering you right about now, sorry for being so late, I haven`t forgotten about your questions)
 
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