pharmaceutical grade fish oil

[Spencer]

I chanced upon a book "The Omega Rx Zone" by Barry Sears in the bookstore today.

Didnt have much time to read in depth into it. But from what i can gather flipping through the pages, the approach seem to revolve around using high dose pharmaceutical grade fish oil.

The book worship fish oil and has highlighted several of its benefits. I am not disputing whether it is hype or not. We all know fish oil work. 2 things caught my attention:

1) Sears advocate the use of high dose fish oil, BUT only with pharmaceutical grade fish oil. He says that most of the fish oil on the market contain toxic materials and supplementation at high dose only make matters worse. 2 fish oil suppliers in USA are listed as the only places to have fish oil that meets the pharmaceutical criteria. One of them is searslab, which i think, could possibly be run by him. If his claims are true, i am thinking of getting the pharmaceutical grade fish oil. Its also because i can get a higher amount of EPA/DHA per tablespoon.

2) Also, he claim high levels of insulin oblierate the fish oil, which is also the reason the Zone diet in the book is focusing more on fruits and vegetables as carbs than grains. How then can it taken during bulking (when high levels of insulin are suppose to be the key to gaining mass)??

Also, i thought fish oil is better to be taken with a good amount of carbs to prevent the liver from oxidising it, so that it can be absorbed into adipose tissue??


Opinions??


P.S: I figured vicious would be particularly interested in this and in a good position to comment on this. Sears boy.....

 

[vicious]

I've read the book in the store. My thoughts:

In terms of PCBs and mercury poisoning, all you need is molecular distillation to correct those issues. (If there's cholesterol in it, it didn't go through the process.) And it's important that the fish oil isn't rancid, but *usually* distilled oil is packed fresh.

The selling point for "p-grade" oil is the extremely high concentration of EPA and the unusual high EPAHA ratio, which doesn't exist with molecular-distilled oil. Less dosage = more bang plus less free radicals from the oxidazation of polyunsaturated fat

I've used the fish oil bottle from Searslabs. Right now, I'm using fish oil capsules from PBL (search netrition.com), which is P-grade but only $25 for an equivalent 3-week supply. It's difficult to compare. On one hand, the capsules are cheaper and let me split my dosages between 2 meals. On the other, having it as a bottle lets me stir in the oil into my protein drinks, and this emulsion seems to take away the fish breath. (I'm too lazy to cut open the capsules myself )

Quote[/b] ]. If his claims are true, i am thinking of getting the pharmaceutical grade fish oil.

The 1800mg EPA dosage is 3.5 times higher than the 500mg recommendation Sears (and other experts) recommend. Do you feel the difference?

You do. Immediately. It's like drinking a cup of coffee every morning.

However, such a high dosage may strongly decrease the enzymes needed for total DGLA production. You will know if your face dries out. If so, then supplement with GLA. (Sears doesn't recommend "high" GLA dosages, but his studies seem done before the Zone diet.)

Quote[/b] ]How then can it taken during bulking (when high levels of insulin are suppose to be the key to gaining mass)??

I take mine in the morning and before bed, with my protein drinks. More out of convenience, but also the periods where insulin level is relatively low.

Most bulking diets are at 5:2 Carb-to-protein or less, higher than the Zone, but not seriously out of the range. Frankly, a full-body 3x-a-week trainee would probably have about the same insulin levels as a regular person on the Zone.

Quote[/b] ]so that it can be absorbed into adipose tissue??

That's no different than any other "normal" fat, though. You also store other polyunsaturated fats, which is why people losing "sparetire fat" often have raised AA levels. That old fat may contain transfatty acids, high amounts of cholesterol, high concentrations of arichdonic acid and so on. You will store fish oil fat, just like any fat, if you eat enough food.

Out of topic, but my hunch is the amount and kinds of essential fat acids (the sort of "potential hormonal profile)" stored in the bodyfat affect your leptin levels. Indirectly, the polyunsaturated fats you ingested during the time when that fat is stored, affects your leptin levels.

cheers,
Jules

 

[Blood&Iron]

Quote[/b] (vicious @ Nov. 12 2002,2:22)]

Quote[/b] ]. If his claims are true, i am thinking of getting the pharmaceutical grade fish oil.

The 1800mg EPA dosage is 3.5 times higher than the 500mg recommendation Sears (and other experts) recommend. Do you feel the difference?
You do. Immediately. It's like drinking a cup of coffee every morning.

Just to comment on this, I was taking 20g of fish oil per day for a good 4-5 months(This is roughly 3.6g EPA and 2.4g DHA) and while it certainly has noticeable anti-inflammatory effect(all minor aches and pains disappeared) I can't say I saw much else in the way of effects.

 

[Spencer]

I am using GNC's fish oil caps now (180mg EPA, 120mg DHA). Is it a good idea to change it to the "p-grade" fish oil? If so, where to get it? searslab.com or the PBL you are getting?

I know it will be very expensive. What are the prices like? Also, shipping charges are very important to me, as i live in Singapore.

Quote[/b] ]However, such a high dosage may strongly decrease the enzymes needed for total DGLA production. You will know if your face dries out. If so, then supplement with GLA. (Sears doesn't recommend "high" GLA dosages, but his studies seem done before the Zone diet.)

A good side effect? Puberty the last few years has made my face's sebum production go haywire and as a result, scarring from acne.

Quote[/b] ]
Quote
so that it can be absorbed into adipose tissue??


That's no different than any other "normal" fat, though. You also store other polyunsaturated fats, which is why people losing "sparetire fat" often have raised AA levels. That old fat may contain transfatty acids, high amounts of cholesterol, high concentrations of arichdonic acid and so on. You will store fish oil fat, just like any fat, if you eat enough food.

Out of topic, but my hunch is the amount and kinds of essential fat acids (the sort of "potential hormonal profile)" stored in the bodyfat affect your leptin levels. Indirectly, the polyunsaturated fats you ingested during the time when that fat is stored, affects your leptin levels.

You miss the earlier part of the statement. What i meant was, for the fish oil to do its magic, it must be absorbed into adipose tissue right? So taking it together with carbs prevent the liver from burning it off?

And this whole issue is related to the "high insulin levels oblierate effects of fish oil. You say insulin levels while bulking wouldnt be high enough to affect the fish oil. But one would concentrate on grains and sugars (postworkout) more than fruits and vegetables while bulking. How then, would it not affect the fish oil??

P.S: I forgot Keebler is also a fan of the Zone. Mind if you chime in on this??

 

[vicious]

I get PBL at netrition.com. I, of course, recommend it, but it's by no means crucial for strictly BBing concerns.

Quote[/b] ]Puberty the last few years has made my face's sebum production go haywire and as a result, scarring from acne

Most adult acne cases I've seen were due to undetected food allergies. For example, my aunt got acne from orange juice. A friend breaks out when she eats fish.

Quote[/b] ]for the fish oil to do its magic, it must be absorbed into adipose tissue right?

I don't believe so. I can see where maybe "excess" acids in the fish oil should be stored later on, if not needed, but I don't think this is any different than any other fatty acid or fat-soluble nutrient.

Quote[/b] ]How then, would it not affect the fish oil??

Well, the thing is I don't see an incentive for taking fish oil after a workout anyway. Your insulin levels shouldn't be that high before bedtime or first thing in the morning. Moreover, though yes grains and sugars have much higher GI, they're eaten after a weight-training workout. As such burns mostly sugar, it reduces the insulin levels significantly. If the so-called "insulin spike" is not enough to make you doze off or lose your concentration, then your insulin level isn't *that* high.

The statements "fish oil needs to be stored in adipose tissue" and "high insulin levels obliterate the effects of fish oil" contradict each other somewhat. Fat can be stored as adipose tissue without the presence of insulin, but really it's when insulin levels are moderate-to-high does (or if excessive fat is eaten) does this really happen. So in wanting to do the former, you do the latter.

I don't know how useful fish oil is if you're eaten a carb-rich diet.

cheers,
Jules

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (Spencer @ Nov. 14 2002,3:57)]What i meant was, for the fish oil to do its magic, it must be absorbed into adipose tissue right?

Nope, while the fish oil would have some effect on adipocyte metabolism, the majority of the metabolisc effects are done via the liver.

Quote[/b] ]I don't know how useful fish oil is if you're eaten a carb-rich diet.

yes, in terms of overall health. It will also reduce fat storage adn increase fat oxidation. Long chain n-3s are good for almost everyone.