Pushing the Boundaries of Frequency

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PJFerrandi

New Member
This is my first post on here...please forgive me if this has been addressed numerous times! I did read a couple of threads that briefly discussed the notion of pushing the frequency aspect to the limit, but I wanted to see if I could get some personal feedback.

I'm almost done with the first two week block of HST style training and have been following a full body routine 3-4 times per week. Last week, I trained a couple days in a row and noticed no ill effect. I've already been accustomed to higher frequency style training and am now thinking about seeing how far I can push the envelope without delving into two a days.

I.E...I trained full body yesterday and am looking to train again today. I'd like to train tomorrow as well before the Thanksgiving feast. This would translate to 3 full body days in a row. Keep in mind that I'm still in the 15 rep portion of the mesocycle. And, I'm inching closer to my true 15 rep maxes. I figure that with the rep range so high, one can easily get away with increased training frequency..i.e. 2-3 days in a row assuming volume is kept to 2-3 sets per muscle group.

My Routine:
SQUAT 2x15
RDL 1x15
BENCH 2x15
HAMMER STRENGTH INCLINE 1x15
SEATED MILITARY 2x15
LATERAL RAISE 1x15
REVERSE FLY MACHINE (Rear Delt) 1x15
BENT OVER ROW 2x15
CLOSE GRIP PULL DOWN 1x15
CURLS 2x15
TRICEP EXTENSION 2x15
CALVES 2x15

Any input is GREATLY appreciated. Yes, I've read some other threads in regards, however I have not seen too many discuss increased frequency on a full body during the higher rep range portion of the program. Thanks to everyone.
 
I've done a few weeks where I went to the gym every day. Made sure I had plenty of sleep and food. It was typically the amount of time it takes rather than wear and tear that gets me off that cycle. My only concern is that you have a lot of upper body isolation exercises. If you are a beginner like me I don't think you need all of that isolation.
 
Frequency is your best friend. That said, my body taps out after 3 days of pre-5RM days in a row. Post 5RM and I need a recovery day after 2 days in a row. If I should run into DOMS after an SD, as I did this week, I just work right through it. Your satellite cells will peak at 24 hours after a workout and return to normal after 48 hours. Therefore, ideally you could workout every day but never let more than 48 hours go between workouts. Obviously volume needs to be adjusted to accomodate training every day. Your 19 exercises I would consider about 60% over the top for me to handle daily training but you may be able to handle it with your much younger age. I also think you are probably beyond intermediate. I assume you have been working out at least 5 years or are gifted in the gene area.
 
You can train 5-6 days a week and be just fine.

I'm currently doing a 3-on, 1-off split, strictly above 5RM loads and have no problems completing it.

You'll probably have a brutal lactic acid feeling at the end of the 15s, but there's nothing wrong with that in the slightest.
 
Thank you guys so much for sharing your experience and advice! I'll continue to train consecutively with attention to volume purity ... i.e. best bang for buck in regards to both exercise choice and number of sets performed respectively. So far, I've noticed nothing but positives with the increase in frequency and I have not even passed the 15 rep phase of the mesocycle.
 
The only thing I'm curious about is how to plan out the progressive load...that is, how much weight to add per movement per session with the increase in frequency. If I end up at roughly 5-6 sessions per week..(I'll be throwing in a rest day based upon feel, which should translate to 5-6 training sessions in a typical week)..I will be unable to add the prescribed 5-10lbs per session. I'm thinking of doing one of two things:

1. Add on a basis of 5lbs per session for lower body movements instead of the initial 10lbs I was going to strive for. This still leaves me with the issue of the exercises by which I increase only 5lbs per session...I will not have an option to increase 2.5lbs per session. Therefore, I'm thinking of increasing those movements the prescribed 5lbs...but, instead of every session, I will increase every other session.

2. Simply add at the normal progression and keep the blocks of rep ranges on only a 1 week basis...however, this lends the issue that the mesocycle will be cut short...

Your thoughts?!
 
If you're on the juice you're volume and frequency shouldn't be an issue. I personally couldn't imagine doing that amount of volume in such a short period of time a standard 1 on 1 off full body is the most volume and frequency my body can handle. I agree with you doing a progressive load every other session. You could always do 5lbs per big muscle group every other session and 5lbs every other week per small muscle group.
 
You don't need to be on roids to train close to every day as long as your volume is adjusted accordingly. Typically that means 6-10 sub-maximal working sets per day for the whole body. However, I have gone as high as 6 working sets of just neutral chins throughout the day, 6 days per week, spaced about 2 hours apart to prioritize them over a 6 week period and the results were amazing. And I am at a training and chronological age that makes it extremely hard to add muscle. Most of the sets were heavily weighted in the 5 rep range and up through negatives. Of course, the rest of my body was trained sub-maximally only 3 times per week. To me, adding about a 5% increase to your lat-flexed chest size in 6 weeks when you thought you were close to tapped out qualifies as amazing. And I have not lost it subsequently which I thought might be a problem.

The time comes (eventually) for all consistent lifters when the vanilla HST programs need to be tweaked and then re-tweaked. Remember the main focus of HST are principles and not laid in stone programs.
 
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Hi guys..I figured I'd shoot you all an update as to how everything is going so far and how I've been training. First of all, thanks for responding to my questions...it's been a huge help. Now, onto the training and how I've felt etc.

After the responses from Old and Grey, I decided to up the frequency into the every day range. I can't really say 6 days per week...rather, I'll be taking rest days "as needed" based upon how I feel. But, I was striving for at least 6 days per week. Since posting these questions, I have not taken a single rest day and I'm now about mid way through the 10 rep range block of the cycle. I completed the 15 rep range block of the cycle and was on the tail end already with a simple 3 day per week frequency (pushing it towards the 6 day per week after posting this). As of the last two days, I've actually done two training sessions per day; that is without really scaling volume from the original program I posted. I'm simply repeating the same full body routine twice per day (at least for the last two days and today again probably). I feel fine..I haven't had any soreness nor issues recovering. Not as far as I can tell in so far. I'm now really starting to see some changes in my muscle size...at least I believe I am. I'm entirely natural and therefore do not expect a huge rate of gain, but I believe I'm gaining at a rate much better than ever before on just the same calories. This leads me to the next topic...of which I have some questions.

Food intake hasn't been upped signficantly with the increase in frequency and as I've said before..I seem to be okay. I've been gaining on only 2600kcal per day! ... in fact, I feel like I'm even gaining some fat at this intake. Or, at the least, gaining water retention in my midsection (which I cannot understand why..my calories have been stable here for over 2 months now and I didn't experience gain in weight nor bloat before) Macronutrient breakdown is the same has it has been for the last months as well. I'm taking in roughy 190 Protein, 300 Carb and 70 Fat. However, I JUST started with the training twice per day (keeping the exact same workout/volume for all sessions). So, I may increase my food intake. I'd love to hear all of your thoughts in regards to my current calorie intake and if you believe I need to be upping them considering I've trained every single day since my original post and twice per day in the last couple of days. I'll continue the two time per day frequency from here on out assuming I can...which I'm guessing I can if I up the calories; if you think I need to up the calories that is. Please let me know all of your thoughts guys!!

...I may keep this thread alive as a pseudo log and include some progress pictures in the future. I'm also coming close to finishing the 10 rep range block of the programming and am unsure as to how to approach everything when I start getting into the lower rep ranges..i.e. 5 reps and then the negative phase. I doubt from a central nervous system standpoint that I can keep training with that level of frequency. At the same time, if my body is accustomed to this level of volume in the 10 rep range...will I stop gaining at the same rate if I do not increase the amount of sets with respect to the lower rep ranges? I.e. instead of 2x10 ...3x5 ? or, should I keep everything consistent in regards to number of sets, frequency etc assuming the intensity is increased (poundage increase to accomodate the lower reps). All thoughts and feedback is greatly appreciated mates. Thanks.
 
PJ, if you are saying you are doing your original program (which was almost 20 sets) twice per day every day, you are talking enormous volume ( >200 sets per week!!!). You can do anything short term but I would say you will hit a wall and deflate if you keep it up. You can't eat your way out of CNS fatigue.

Even "just" 20 sets per day every day is pushing it beyond what I think is wise. I rarely go above a cumulative weekly total of 60 working sets. Once in a while I will prioritize a body part, like lats, for a short period of time and really kill them but I cut back to maintenance on other body parts.

However, if you want to be the guinea pig and go for it, I will be very interested in your results. Just don't cause any permanent injury.
 
Old and Grey said:
PJ, if you are saying you are doing your original program (which was almost 20 sets) twice per day every day, you are talking enormous volume ( >200 sets per week!!!). You can do anything short term but I would say you will hit a wall and deflate if you keep it up. You can't eat your way out of CNS fatigue.

Even "just" 20 sets per day every day is pushing it beyond what I think is wise. I rarely go above a cumulative weekly total of 60 working sets. Once in a while I will prioritize a body part, like lats, for a short period of time and really kill them but I cut back to maintenance on other body parts.

However, if you want to be the guinea pig and go for it, I will be very interested in your results. Just don't cause any permanent injury.
Click to expand...

Thanks for getting back to me, m8!! Yes, I agree..this is something I'll plan to only continue for the remainder of the 10 rep range block which is less than a week left. You are going to kill me...but, I also train brazilian jiu jitsu/grappling about 1 hour three times per week on top of my weight training!

Calories stayed right at 2600kcal as I mentioned previous. I should mention perhaps that I'm taking large amounts of HICA and L-Leucine and a new patented amino by VPX creatyl-l-leucine. I'm not a shill..I actually do not believe BCAAs to be of much benefit to someone already eating a protein rich diet...however, I'd be lying if I told you that I didn't think this addition of peptide aminos were improving my recovery. I think I'm just so used to high frequency training already...I began with an undulated method in the form of PHAT (really a twice per week frequency with lower rep, heavy weight in the beginning of the week and lighter weight, higher rep towards the end) ...then, I moved towards a 6day per week Upper/Lower, which translated to a three time per week frequency and I cycled the rep ranges throughout the week by starting lighter in the beginning and getting progressively heavier, more intense weight towards the end of the week. Many of these days I'd be doing upwards of 10 sets of 3 HEAVY reps just for squats alone (at the end of the work week) plus all the normal accessory work etc. Similar type of programming with respect to bench for the upper days...So, I may just be accustomed to being chronically "overtrained".

Most days...I feel like I could do a lot more in the gym..it's very difficult for me to scale back as I have to 2x10 for squats where more than half of the training block is with poundage that is well below my true 10-12 rep max due to the way the HST programming is set up to ramp up poundage up to true 10 rep max towards the end of each respective block.

One thing I've noticed..I'm hungry as FUH! but...then again...I always feel that way, even when I'm in a surplus and gaining...I feel "dieted"...I constantly want to eat; may just be a mental thing.
 
Update:

Took a rest day yesterday...have decided to quit on the two a day full bodys...perhaps, certain days I may go in and do a few more added sets for some specialized smaller muscle groups like deltoids and/or Bicep/Triceps/Calves. I'll keep going with the every day full body otherwise, though. Feel pretty damn good. Have been able to hit the reps for each increase in load per session and my weight is up about 1-2 lbs consistently from when I began the program. Which is damn surprising considering my calories have only been about 2500-2600kcal per day...one would think I'd lost weight from all of the increase in training...my metabolism must be tanked from my last show in April. I made sure to reverse diet properly as well, however I'm a smaller guy. My bodyweight is only 145-147lbs consistently...however, my body fat is still respectively low.

Please advise if you believe I should continue to increase my calories slowly...I was debating on adding another 25g of carbs next week OR the equivalent calorically in dietary fat.

Currently - 200 P, 300 C, 65 F.

I'm also nearing the end of the 10 rep range block; do you keep the same number of sets when you decrease the reps? Even though the intensity of load is higher?
 
Add carbs, grow more. You'll severely limit your gains on the current diet. Great job though, on your recovery and training frequency. Re:sets, it's up to you. Some guys like to keep volume high even during the 5s. 5 sets of 5 is high volume IMO, but perfectly fine if you are only doing a few exercises. If you are doing a shit-ton of different lifts, the 1-3 sets per exercise is plenty.
 
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