question about 5's

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by imported_davewins, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. 2 weeks of 15's, 2 weeks of 10's, 2 weeks of 5's and then 2 more weeks of 5's except this time just keep doing your 5rm??
     
  2. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Dave,

    I approach it this way:

    Once I have reached the weight that was my 5RM I keep incrementing for all exercises each w/o until I reach my new 5RM for each exercise. Sometimes this might be one extra workout, sometimes more. Once I have reached a new 5RM for a particular exercise I make a note of it for my next cycle and then I either keep the weight the same until the end of the second week of post-5s (for squats, deads, bench, military press) or continue to increment the weight and do fewer concentric reps per set. Then I will either cluster my reps until I get to around 15 or continue the set with eccentrics (negs) if possible. Chins and dips are great for this.

    This cycle I have been able to keep incrementing for most exercises for a whole week and still get my 5 reps out (at least on the first set). So now I have to decide whether I extend my cycle and do another 2 weeks with these new 5RMs or whether I just do one more week and then give my joints a break. I don't feel too bad today after the heaviest deads of my life yesterday so I think I'll go for it!

    For my calves I used to do 15+ reps before HST and got pretty much nowhere. Now I don't bother with 15s at all and start them off on 10s, as recommended by Vicious. So I end up doing a lot more heavy work for them and they are finally starting to grow. Yipee!
     
  3. navigator

    navigator New Member

    Lol has great ideas. Another idea is to find out your new 5RM weights using Lol's method, but then increase the weight by 5% for your next cycle. After doing an SD and working through the 15s and 10s, you ought to be able hit the new 5RM weight and even "overreach" a bit, as Lol suggests.

    The one caveat is, you must have your volume tuned to the correct value for you. If the volume is too much, I don't think you'll be able to gain enough strength to hit the new 5RM. The good news is that this can provide one way for you to determine whether or not you are using too much volume in your cycle. But I guess I'm rambling off topic, now.
     
  4. But after your first 2 weeks of 5's if you aren't going to negatives what are you supposed to do?? Just do your 5rm every day for the next 2 weeks and then SD??
     
  5. navigator

    navigator New Member

    Well, if you don't want to do negatives, you can keep working with your 5RM weights for 2 more weeks, or you can try to work up to your 3RM, or you can try to incorporate some of the 5x5 techniques into your training. Alternatively, you can try clustering your reps, or doing drop-sets.

    All of these alternatives (except the 5x5) are discussed in the HST FAQ.
     
  6. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just do your 5rm every day for the next 2 weeks and then SD??</div>

    As navigator says, that's exactly what you could do. The reason being that with your 5RM weights you will still get a hypertrophic effect for about 2 weeks before your muscles will not adapt any more to the strain they are being subjected to.

    However, if you reckon you can increment again after getting to your 5RMs why not do it? If you don't want to do negs or cluster reps this approach will at least save you having to retest your 5RMs.
     
  7. Ok, thanx for all the replies. How about doing the 5's again with the same increments except just add 5 pounds to each exercise for the RM?? Would that be a good way to do it??
     
  8. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    <div>
    (davewins @ Feb. 25 2006,22:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ok, thanx for all the replies.  How about doing the 5's again with the same increments except just add 5 pounds to each exercise for the RM??  Would that be a good way to do it??</div>
    Only if your 1RM increased by 5 Lbs, if not then you haven't really done anything different than doing your 3-4RM.
     
  9. navigator

    navigator New Member

    Whether or not an additional 5 lbs for every exercise is good is really an individual thing, and depends on what your 5RM weights are. Adding 5 lbs to your squat and to your curl don't mean the same thing.

    For this reason, I think you should think in terms of percentages. On one hand, 5% of a 200 lb squat amounts to adding 10 lbs. On the other hand, 5% of a 100 lb curl amounts to 5 lbs. Adding 5lbs to a 200 lb squat may be not enough, and adding 10 lbs to a 100 lb curl may be too much.

    I cannot say whether incrementing the 5s again in the same cycle will be more or less effective. I can say from personal experience that incrementing the 5s all over again is one way to save a cycle when burn out strikes too early. But for you, now, I cannot tell you that it'll be more effective than some other technique.

    I really do think you should run through the vanilla HST cycle at least once before trying alternative variations. I say this because I fear that if you were to choose a variation that is not a good fit for you today, it could make HST appear to be less effective for you. This may leave you with the impression that HST is no good, and all the while not knowing that vanilla HST is far superior to anything you've yet tried. Running the vanilla HST will give you a gauge, or standard, by which you can measure the relative effectiveness of future variations.
     
  10. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Navigator is right.  It is fun playing with all the variables and the techniques for increasing metabolic stress during the 5s etc, but completing at least one plain vanilla HST cycle will really help you to appreciate the thought that has gone into the principles.

    So once you get to your 5RMs either continue with those weights for a further 2 weeks or as the FAQ says &quot;If you have gained a lot of strength, you may increment the load further for a couple of workouts - but avoid going to failure.&quot;

    Also, if you want to try negs the FAQ guidelines are as follows:-

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There are two approaches to the progression.  

    (1) Select a load which is approximately your 2-rep max and do 1-2 concentric+3-4 eccentric reps for all 6 workouts of this phase. This is the easiest way and should be followed for your first try with the program.

    (2) After your last workout of 5s, continue the progressive increments for each workout until you can no longer control the weight on the descent for 2-4 seconds. You may also vary the concentric:eccentric rep number ratio. E.g. for the first workouts in the negatives microcycle, you may do 3-4 regular concentric/eccentric reps+1-2 eccentric-only reps. On the last workouts of negatives you may do 5 eccentric-only reps. This is for more advanced lifters, as the injury potential would be greater from the heavier loads that will be lifted.</div>
     
  11. &quot;Repetitions will decrease every 2 weeks in the following order: 15 reps for 2 weeks Þ 10 reps for 2 weeks Þ 5 reps for 2 weeks Þ then continue with your 5 rep max for 2 weeks or begin 2 weeks of negatives.&quot;

    See, this is the part where I am a little confused. I want to do everything EXACTLY right. Does he mean continue my 5rm for the following 2 weeks without progressively loading to get there?? For example say my 5rm is 200lbs. Should I do 200lbs for that given exercise all 6 days of the 2 week block or should I work up to it again so I do 200lbs on the 6th day??
     
  12. navigator

    navigator New Member

    <div>
    (davewins @ Mar. 01 2006,09:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Does he mean continue my 5rm for the following 2 weeks without progressively loading to get there??</div>
    Yes, you'll use your 5RM weights for two weeks after having spent two weeks progressing up to your 5RM.  This is productive because the 5RM weights are so bloody heavy.

    One thing though:  if you find, at the end of the 5s, that you have gained strength, then go ahead and continue incrementing until you are working with your new, true 5RM weights, and then carry out the extra two weeks of 5RMs.

    <div>
    (davewins @ Mar. 01 2006,09:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I want to do everything EXACTLY right.</div>

    Don't worry about doing everything exactly right.  Muscle growth is not a black &amp; white issue, where one mistake means no growth at all.  So relax, and just do the best you can to set up everything right.  And then stop thinking about it and lift. [​IMG]
     
  13. <div>
    (navigator @ Mar. 01 2006,22:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (davewins @ Mar. 01 2006,09:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Does he mean continue my 5rm for the following 2 weeks without progressively loading to get there??</div>
    Yes, you'll use your 5RM weights for two weeks after having spent two weeks progressing up to your 5RM.  This is productive because the 5RM weights are so bloody heavy.

    One thing though:  if you find, at the end of the 5s, that you have gained strength, then go ahead and continue incrementing until you are working with your new, true 5RM weights, and then carry out the extra two weeks of 5RMs.

    <div>
    (davewins @ Mar. 01 2006,09:37)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I want to do everything EXACTLY right.</div>

    Don't worry about doing everything exactly right.  Muscle growth is not a black &amp; white issue, where one mistake means no growth at all.  So relax, and just do the best you can to set up everything right.  And then stop thinking about it and lift. [​IMG]</div>
    ok thanx a lot for the help
     
  14. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    Dave

    Let's take for instance the hypothesis that you are doing 5 RM for the second week of 5's, but on the very first day you find you can do 6 or even 7 reps, then increment, else repeat the weights. [​IMG]

    Both Nav and Lol gave you very good advice, use it and you will progress!

    Cheers
     

Share This Page