Rate of adding new loads

HST_Rihad

HST_Rihad

Active Member
I finished my last cycle with 5RM weights in leg presses at 280kg/617lbs, shrugs 127.5kg/280lbs. These being the heaviest loads I do. In the current extended cycle (week 10 already, as I'm cutting) I've already ramped up leg presses by 10 kg, shrugs by 2.5 kg, and going. How much can I add without putting my tendons and ligaments under undue risk? Tendons do take some time to adapt to heavy loads. I'm planning to reach 300 kg (+20 kg) in leg press and 140 kg (+12.5 kg) in shrugs this cycle. Or would I be better off not taking chances and call it quits earlier?
 
No one can answer that question for you. Typically you go by feel. In a non-juice, natural lifter, the muscle will usually fail before the tendon, joint, etc. so it is not a problem that you are likely to encounter, especially on the two lifts that you mentioned. Just make sure you control the eccentric motion. Your biggest exposure to injury, as I see it, is with a hernia doing heavy leg presses.
 
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O&G is on the money re: hernia risks - be sensible there.

Personally, I try to be aware of what % my load increases are, as much as the absolute #.
 
Thanks, guys. This is one of those places that you can't read about in books and where experience is very important. Too many times have I heard of drug-using individuals tearing their pecs (or tendons) as their strength increases greatly but their tendons still remain "natural". I've even witnessed (virtually) one past drug user tear his pecs chasing heavier loads in his variation of linear progression he based on HST. For that purpose Bryan recommends increasing reps for a drug user, instead of the load. In that case the worst case that could happen post-cycle is a decrease in reps back to normal. No ego hurt that much. I just wasn't sure how this rule held for natural users.
 
Well your muscles aren't climbing in front of your connective tissue, strength wise, unless you're cycling and juicing, so you ought to be just fine.

I would certainly beware of the hernia risk re: leg press. Cavity pressure & tension is nothing we can reliably sense in order to prevent the injury. We know when it's happening, and we know when 'oh $hit, what is that doing outside of my abominal area!' but there's not really a space in between the two states that we can effectively manipulate.
 
I should probably train all of my midsection area (abs, obliques, lower back) as a precaution. Hardly anything else I can do about that, besides not increasing the loads. Breathing through my mouth and keeping it open (which I do) could probably help with the internal pressure.
 
I would advocate against training any of those specifically. Hyper's are quite dangerous, although useful at lower loads and higher reps. Abs and obliques don't need any hypertrophy (it's the opposite of a good look, thick sides, anti-V shape), will get their work done via compounds and generally speaking, they're not the determining factors (or near it) of a hernia (as far as I understand it.
 
Sure, I always do my hyperextensions higher rep, 15-18. Same would go for side bends (obliques) and crunches etc. Although you're right that it wouldn't be very good from aesthetic point of view to hypertrophy them by too much. Thus, higher reps. The idea is to get some kind of a burning sensation. Trained midsection muscles would go a long way towards keeping it tight and holding my organs in their place, if I understand the mechanism.

Lol might have something interesting to say regarding hernia (his sig says he has it), whether he had a genetic predisposition or simply due exercise choice, heavier weights/lower reps, etc.
 
Just my 2 cents:

Ive always felt it better to actually train my abs and obliques regularly. It seems to help when squating, at least. The abs obviously get a seeing to whilst doing compounds but I never fell as strong in my core if I dont actually target them specifically.

Alex: Im glad you mentioned max-stim in one of my posts. Im now using that technique whilst doing weighted abcrunches in the machine and its hitting the muscles like never before. Thanks!
 
AlexAustralia said:
Well your muscles aren't climbing in front of your connective tissue, strength wise, unless you're cycling and juicing, so you ought to be just fine.

I would certainly beware of the hernia risk re: leg press. Cavity pressure & tension is nothing we can reliably sense in order to prevent the injury. We know when it's happening, and we know when 'oh $hit, what is that doing outside of my abominal area!' but there's not really a space in between the two states that we can effectively manipulate.
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If you are only doing 1/4 partial leg presses, this is much less of a concern.
 
HST_Rihad said:
Why don't you just go ahead and leg press 644 lbs x 5 at the depth I did, weighing 150 lbs and on a caloric restriction?
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Your offensive tone is unnecessary, though I suppose I should have expected it. I was simply pointing out that you don't have much of a hernia risk doing the 1/4 partial leg presses you are currently doing.

That said, why would I want to do 644 pound partial leg presses? I would much rather do the 585lbx5 full ROM leg presses I did at the end of my last cycle. Come to think of it, why would I want to do anything you are doing in your training routine? You are 150 pounds and, judging by your pictures, carrying more body fat than I have at 5'9" and 180 pounds. No thank you.

I understand you are frustrated with your training results, and your conversations on this board seemingly exacerbate your frustrations; but no need to take out those frustrations on those of us trying to help you.

Good luck, train hard.
 
HST_Rihad said:
Why don't you just go ahead and leg press 644 lbs x 5 at the depth I did, weighing 150 lbs and on a caloric restriction?
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You haven't done 644lbs x5 for a leg press. You've done that for a less than 1/2 ROM leg press. At least be honest with yourself.
 
nativetroutbum said:
I would much rather do the 585lbx5 full ROM leg presses I did at the end of my last cycle. Come to think of it, why would I want to do anything you are doing in your training routine? You are 150 pounds and, judging by your pictures, carrying more body fat than I have at 5'9" and 180 pounds. No thank you.
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585lbsx5 full ROM - I can do that too. Weighing 150lbs. You do know that being in a heavier category obliges you to handle more?
I understand you are frustrated with your training results, and your conversations on this board seemingly exacerbate your frustrations; but no need to take out those frustrations on those of us trying to help you.
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Frustrated? No, man. I've really started growing after pushing it harder and harder past through 5RM partials (which aren't really that partial). To the point that I did 205kg/452lbs x 10 at RPE 9+ - my 10RM from June - but just yesterday after two sets of 292kg/644lbs x5, I did a third metabolic set of 240kg/529lbs x10 at a decent depth without trouble. Can't accurately track my muscle gains because I've been dieting and still losing water/fat/connective tissue etc.

Good luck, train hard.
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Thanks
 
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AlexAustralia said:
You haven't done 644lbs x5 for a leg press. You've done that for a less than 1/2 ROM leg press. At least be honest with yourself.
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You don't read what I wrote - "go ahead and leg press 644 lbs x 5 at the depth I did".
A guy on another forum shared a great vid of Dorian Yates doing his leg presses whose form & depth he believes to be impeccable. That's indeed impressive form. I can see right away that the he declined the upper platform away from himself, I on the contrary deliberately pulled it towards me as can be seen on my vid. So I will try pushing it one inch away from me next time.
 
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Partial leg press is a leg press. As you can see such partial fiddling increased my 10RM by 35kg in a little over a month. What this means to me is that next cycle I will be able to handle more load at a bigger ROM throughout the cycle, moving into partials again in preparation for the next cycle etc. Cmon, that's what you're doing rack pulls for - increase your DL working weights. I also think partial leg presses give mass gains all by themselves (increased tension is as important as microtrauma).
 
I'd suggested doing some backwards calculations starting with 300 and see where your 15's are, 8's and 5's are etc. See how much weight you'll end up doing at the 15 rep range and determine if you'll be able to do them comfortably then figure out the amount of weight you want to add per
 
HST_Rihad said:
(increased tension is as important as microtrauma).
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No, no, and double no. In hypertrophy, nothing, absolutely nothing, is more important than muscle micro trauma. Increasing tension is just one of many means of achieving muscle micro trauma with many variables within itself. I think you missed the whole theory that HST is based on and that may be why your statements are sometimes so ludicrous. I suggest that your training would benefit markedly if you went back and started at the beginning and got a basic understanding of the principles of HST.
 
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