Results From My First Cycle Back. Looking For Some Advice.

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SilverBullet

New Member
Just finished my first cycle back from a 6 year hibernation period. One thing is for certain, I am not quitting this time around. Everything about this routine is amazing. The anticipation before the cycle starts gives me butterflies. The steady buildup of weight over the course of 6 weeks keeps my body and muscles fresh and never fatigued. I always look forward to my week 2, week 4, and week 6 max reps. And weeks 7, 8, and 9, are an all out fight to get stronger. After my last workout in week 9 I look forward to the SD week, I am spent, but not in pain. The break is much needed and it builds up my anticipation for the start of the next cycle. There are three, I guess obvious, main goals I strive to achieve with each cycle: gain mass, build strength, and limit fat gain.


Body weight at start 193lbs

Body weight after week 8, 202lbs, a gain of 9lbs

This is according to my digital scale at home

I have 3 methods to calculate BF% and they are all way off. The only “accurate” measurement I have gotten is from a DEXA scan, at the start of the cycle and at the end of week 8. The DEXA scan showed that I had gained 3.7lbs of muscle, and and 6.3lbs of fat. So I started at 10.2% BF and ended up at 12.9%. Not happy about these numbers.


Monday, Weds, Friday full body routine (vanilla 1x15 2x10 3x5)
Here are the 5 rep max at the start of the cycle and end of week 8
  1. Weighted pull-ups BW+75lb -> BW+95lb, change +20lbs

  2. Dumbbell bench press 195lb -> 217.5lb, change +20lbs

  3. Squat (Mon,Fri) 165lb -> 230lb, change +65lbs

  4. Deadlift(Weds) 200lb -> 265lbs, change +65lbs

  5. Bent over row 175lb -> 205lb, change +30lbs

  6. Weighted dips BW+85lb -> BW+130, change +45lbs



  7. Romanian deadlift(Mon, Fri - dropped after week 6)

  8. Standing military press (dropped after week 6 due to shoulder discomfort)

  9. DB curls (dropped after week 6)

  10. Tricep extensions (dropped after week 6)

  11. Standing calf raises (dropped after week 6)

The good:
  1. Gained a ton of strength
  2. Gained decent mass

  3. My lats, upper back, and triceps are my strongest muscles.

  4. Love my garage gym, so much better and more convenient than a public gym. I bought myself a Rogue half rack, it's fantastic. I can now do every lift safely without a spotter.

  5. In weeks 1 through 4 I finish my routine in less than an hour.

The bad:

  1. Gained too much fat for my liking. I am not happy about it especially since I count calories. :(

  2. My legs are weakest link. My deadlift and squat numbers are almost laughable. I am going to have to put in a lot of work!

  3. Eating a lot of food is hard work (and expensive too!)

  4. I still look like a stick. At 6'6”, I figure it will take me about 3 years of HST cycles to completely fill out, and still I know my legs will look like twigs.

  5. In weeks 6 through 9 it takes me a good 2 and a half hours to get through a full routine of compound lifts. But I don't feel fatigued at all. I just rest a lot between sets (at least 5minutes).
  6. Getting old sucks. After squats my knees joints are feeling it the rest of the day. Wasn't like this 6 years ago.

The ugly:

  1. As I start military pressing heavy weights, my rotator cuff starts hurting and I have to stop before it gets worse. I am not really sure how to fix this issue and I am very discouraged by this since MP is such an important lift. The range of motion somehow causes the ligament on the anterior deltoid to get tender. The dull pain usually comes on after I finish the workout. As soon as I stopped pressing, the pain and tenderness went away with a week.

Seeking advice


If I seem to be consistently gaining an average between 3.5 and 4lbs of muscle with each cycle should I decrease my calories so that I aim to gain a maximum of 5lbs total or do you think the decreased calorie intake will also cause me to gain less mass. I am very curious what the pros here think about this. I don't know why I was hoping that I could gain .75lbs of muscle per week. From previous HST results, obviously my body has reached a peak mass gain of around .4-.5lbs per week. The question is, should I try to cut down that fat gain or will my muscle gains suffer as well?


How about the military press, any advice or alternatives?
 
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I'm one of the fatter guys here but frankly 12% is still really trim, in fact you may not even be fat enough to be at your strongest...but I digress. You should be really happy about 4lbs of muscle in a single cycle imo, that will not last forever so enjoy your sweet ride on the gains train. So I only have a few suggestions for you:
  1. Consider not changing anything and ride your gains out and gain a little fat. At 6'6" and 200lbs you're pretty skinny. If you cut your calories, expect your strength/hypertrophy gains to decline over time too.
  2. If you really want to change something start with squats as your first lift and leave your deadlifts where they are. This will allow you a bit more rest which will help you achieve greater intensity sets (higher load). At your weight some of your greatest strength gains are in your legs just waiting for you to let them out.
  3. Consider buying knee sleeves (they are kinda expensive) and maybe olympic lifting shoes to keep your knees healthy. If you feel comfortable post a video of your squat form (preferably in the heavy 5 rep range), you may be missing something that is overly fatiguing/stressing the knees.
  4. Google shoulder rehab external rotation, for the modern man who works a desk job we almost all have internally rotated shoulders that causes issues when you try and go overhead with lifting. For me I found a lot of improvement with light behind the neck pressing and doing some external rotation drills. In the last few months I've been approaching pain free.
  5. Do your overhead pressing standing up rather than sitting in a bench, when standing it's easier to engage your core and stay rigid than when sitting. IMO over time you will be healthier pressing standing up.
  6. Beans and corn tortillas are pretty cheap and a decent amino profile and overall macros. Milk has a good macro setup and can be cheap. Tuna is cheap too.
Congrats again on your first cycle.
 
Adpowah, thanks for the feedback and tips. So technically this isn't my first cycle. I ran 6 cycles of HST back in '08 and this is my first time back. During the 5 bulk cycles I gained about 18lbs of muscle (along with about 12-15lbs of fat). So that about averages out to a little less than 4lbs of lean mass gain per cycle. Looks like I am on that same road again, but was somehow secretly hoping that my body had gotten more efficient at gaining muscle. I guess not, haha.

adpowah said:
Consider not changing anything and ride your gains out and gain a little fat. At 6'6" and 200lbs you're pretty skinny. If you cut your calories, expect your strength/hypertrophy gains to decline over time too.
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1. Ok, I figured lowering calories might also hurt my hypertrophy.

adpowah said:
If you really want to change something start with squats as your first lift and leave your deadlifts where they are. This will allow you a bit more rest which will help you achieve greater intensity sets (higher load). At your weight some of your greatest strength gains are in your legs just waiting for you to let them out.
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I used to do all my cycles with squats/deadlifts first. Since I never do squats and deadlifts on the same day, I didn't think the order was a big deal since lats and chest aren't really activated during these lifts.

adpowah said:
Consider buying knee sleeves (they are kinda expensive) and maybe olympic lifting shoes to keep your knees healthy. If you feel comfortable post a video of your squat form (preferably in the heavy 5 rep range), you may be missing something that is overly fatiguing/stressing the knees.
Click to expand...
I've been seeing a lot of really strong powerlifters use the knee sleeves but I read that it's only necessary for super heavy weight. Are knee wraps the same thing? I've started documenting my fitness progress on instagram. I've posted a few videos already and one is of my squat. Look up @silkyfoot on instagram. I switched from high bar to low bar and took off my shoes. I feel more stable now and my knees don't go over my toes as much. But I still feel discomfort (not pain) in my left knee on my squat days. Back in my young days I tried going below parallel and that definitely was messing with my knees, so I am not even going to try that.

adpowah said:
Google shoulder rehab external rotation, for the modern man who works a desk job we almost all have internally rotated shoulders that causes issues when you try and go overhead with lifting. For me I found a lot of improvement with light behind the neck pressing and doing some external rotation drills. In the last few months I've been approaching pain free. Do your overhead pressing standing up rather than sitting in a bench, when standing it's easier to engage your core and stay rigid than when sitting. IMO over time you will be healthier pressing standing up.
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Thanks. I'll definitely look this up. I've been doing them standing up. The main issue I think is the push press during the first rep. Taking the bar from my chest to the top is where my shoulders are not happy. On the subsequent reps I don't go down below my chin and that definitely feels better on the shoulders. But that first rep is a killer, especially when I get to the 5 rep range.

adpowah said:
Beans and corn tortillas are pretty cheap and a decent amino profile and overall macros. Milk has a good macro setup and can be cheap. Tuna is cheap too.
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Actually I am eating mostly organic stuff, so my monthly food bill has gone through the roof. I pretty much eat everything with high protein content (greek yogurt, milk, cheese, eggs, tuna, sardines, chicken, whey etc.) Only tuna and eggs are somewhat cheap. But that's okay, at least I know I am spending it on something good.

Thanks a lot again for your feedback, much appreciated.
 
Sorry I didn't catch that you alternate your squat and deadlift, you can squat all three days and deadlift once a week that's a pretty common training method. I love deadlifting so I for a long time I did them both 3 times a week. I will probably go back to that someday but I am trying a specific program at the moment.

Regarding the knee sleeves they are definitely different than knee wraps (which are for super heavy weights and make you walk funny). Knee sleeves keep your knees warm and add a little bit of compression. SBD Knee Sleeves seem to be all the rage over on the bb.com powerlifting forums but I heard Mark Bell recently put some out that are comparable but a bit cheaper. Squatting has only improved my knee health so I don't personally use them.

I watched your squat and deadlift video, those weights seemed pretty light. None of those reps were even close to grinders. Not that your form is perfect, but if I had to guess, your struggles are primarily mental at this point.
 
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I told you my legs are weaksauce. The long limb struggle is real! It could be mental or I have a really bad sticking point right at around parallel and get stuck in the hole. I haven't figured it out yet. Lots to learn and Improve. Sigh. Thanks for checking out the form. I appreciate it. I'll take more videos as the weight slowly starts going up. The deadlift is even worse. I have to start with my thighs almost parallel due to my long torso. The range of motion on my DL is ridiculous. I'm considering incorporating sumo style on Mon and Fridays to help me gain some strength
 
2 1/2 hour workouts for 5 exercises of 5 reps and 3 sets each after week 6? Insanity! That is not a hypertrophy workout. That is like 1 minute per working set and 9 minutes of rest. Have you read the e-book? 12.9% fat? Where's the problem?
 
Old and Grey said:
2 1/2 hour workouts for 5 exercises of 5 reps and 3 sets each after week 6? Insanity! That is not a hypertrophy workout. That is like 1 minute per working set and 9 minutes of rest. Have you read the e-book? 12.9% fat? Where's the problem?
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So technically I stretch 15min before and 15min after the workout. For weeks 7,8,9 and I also do warm up sets. And I use a 5min timer between sets. I definitely have to look at the ebook because I didn't think rest between sets mattered. If I don't rest 5min there is no way I will get my reps in. I try to not miss reps in sets.


I am not upset that I am 12.9% BF, I am upset that I gained so much fat (almost 6lbs) in one cycle. I want to keep it at least equal 4lbs muscle, 4lbs fat, especially since I am strict with calorie counting. So, it should be easy for me to control the fat gain by adjusting calories, I just was hoping that I had gained 5lbs of muscle and 4lbs of fat.
 
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from the ebook:

"Rest periods? This isn't terribly important either. Rest long enough to regain your strength for the next set. "
" In the late 5s, you may have to rest up to five minutes between sets of heavy squats, just to catch your breath"
" During the heavier end of the cycle, if you do not get enough rest between sets, you will not be able to complete all your reps"

Looks like I am in-line with what the book says
 
Why are you stretching prior to your workout? I really hope you are doing dynamic stretches and not static stretching.

Stretching is for post-workout and is honestly better off as totally separate from your lifting session. Never do static stretches prior to lifting though as you increase your risk of injury and reduce strength by doing so.
 
Can you elaborate on what you do for warmups? Seems like people either fall into the trap of not doing warmups or doing too much warming up, so it's worth looking into what you are doing for that.
 
Totentanz said:
Can you elaborate on what you do for warmups? Seems like people either fall into the trap of not doing warmups or doing too much warming up, so it's worth looking into what you are doing for that.
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This is definitely news for me. Based on a google search apparently these static stretching studies were done in the last couple of years. I also had to look up the difference between static and dynamic. Based on the definition looks like I do a half-ass static stretch. I stretch the muscle but I don't hold it for more than 2-3 seconds. I just repeat the stretch for each side about 5 times. So basically I do these "static" stretches for quad, hamstring,lats,pecs,triceps, groin as a warm-up. On deadlift day, I warm up with heavy kettlebell swings and kettlebell windmills. This probably falls within the dynamic stretch I guess. After my workout I foam roll for about 10 min and do quick "static" stretches.
 
The only thing you need to do for warmups is a 1-3 sets for each muscle group at a % of your working weight. Any stretching activities are best done after you lift once your muscles are warm. Contrary to traditional wisdom, stretching while cold is a bad idea.
 
Do some PNF stretching on your off days after some minimal dynamic stuff to warm you up. That should be all you have to do to keep mobile.
 
My total warm up routine before each work out consists of one set of 10 body weight:
push ups
chin ups
squats

Total time: 2 minutes or less.
 
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