Rihad's log

Looked up the precise meaning of "empirical", which roughly means "based on experience".
"based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic."
Nothing wrong with that to me, partly because my experience coincides with that person's.
 
I suppose we differ on the qualifier of 'provable' for 'based on experience.

Putting that aside, do you do only 'easy' partials, ala the less difficult part of the lift, or do you cover both the top and bott parts?
 
Most people who are into higher rep uninterrupted tension prefer the middle portion of a movement, meaning staying short of locking out on the one end, and not fully extending/contracting on the other. This is most likely performed with a full ROM weight, +/- (never tried it to be sure), and most likely higher rep to provide for uninterrupted TUT. I'm not really thrilled with the idea, I'd just go ahead and do the full ROM instead. What I am gonna try is quite different - the portion of the lift I'm strongest in, which allows to increase the loading considerably. Heck, if my biceps grows when my arm is simply holding a heavy weight at full length, this shouldn't be underestimated. Several examples that come to mind (done with a heavier than full ROM weight):

the bottom portion in pull-ups, bicep curls, bent over rows, seated rows (farthest portion)
the upper portion in squats, leg press, bench press, DB press

plus of course full ROM afterwards.
 
What I am gonna try is quite different - the portion of the lift I'm strongest in, which allows to increase the loading considerably.

Actually I'd say 90% of people who do some sort of partial, do them like this. It's extremely common.
 
Yes, if we consider that flat BB bench *is* a partial - pecs never get extended fully :D Seriously, I've almost never seen guys doing the kind of partials I've talked about - they're just too "shameful". Only 2 guys who looked natural, about 175cm tall, did them for 1/4 top squats up to 220-240kg, and I saw the legs of one of them while he was doing leg curls - they were big.
 
Last edited:
I see guys doing partials all the time. Mostly squats either in the smiths, just doing the top half, or in the cage where they load up and do the top half. Partial shoulder presses I see quite often in the plate loaded machine. The guys I usually see doing the partial squats are quite big tbh though.

However the biggest(and strongest) that squat at my gym always go ass to the grass.
 
The guys I usually see doing the partial squats are quite big tbh though.

However the biggest(and strongest) that squat at my gym always go ass to the grass.

I'm afraid you're comparing apples to... apples. A guy strong in partial squats would be correspondingly strong in below parallel squats, and vice versa.
 
I'm afraid you're comparing apples to... apples. A guy strong in partial squats would be correspondingly strong in below parallel squats, and vice versa.

Thats true. However, the biggest guys there dont ever do it. It doesnt mean that partials are bad. It doesnt mean that if they did partials alongside the full ROM that they wouldnt get bigger either. Im just saying that those guys dont include them.
 
Yes, if we consider that flat BB bench *is* a partial - pecs never get extended fully :D Seriously, I've almost never seen guys doing the kind of partials I've talked about - they're just too "shameful". Only 2 guys who looked natural, about 175cm tall, did them for 1/4 top squats up to 220-240kg, and I saw the legs of one of them while he was doing leg curls - they were big.

I see them every session almost, they're incredibly common, most likely due to Arnold etc. writing about the technique for a few decades. Most bro-science mags cover them once a year or so.
 
I just did an occlusion experiment: wrapped my right arm tight with some tissue strap with help from my teeth and other hand, and did 30 rep curls with a 3kg DB I have, rested about half a minute and did another 30 with 2 such DBs held in one hand, 6 kg total. Then measured my arm - 4mm increase. Puzzled if it's simply a pump or long term occlusion effect? Size hasn't dropped for 13 minutes already. It's 4:27pm now, will measure in the evening and tomorrow morning.

p.s.: size back to normal. Maybe the immediate growth was due to a pump, but real tissue growth is scheduled to be next. Anyway the idea is worth playing with, provided I find something to squeeze the arm very tight to feel numb in the area.
 
Last edited:
Search the forums on this topic, there's been plenty of discussion previously going back nearly a decade now.
 
I've found lots of research on the subject elsewhere, including a 200 pages long PDF by Wernbom (year 2011). What I was looking for was personal experience of folks using it. I might use the protocol to boost arm growth.
 
Pretty much everything I've read and tried, implemented, heard about anecdotally etc. is that the verdict is growth is temporary, although possibly gives you a better hypoxic environment in the context of glycogen storage (metabolic work).

Take it for what it's worth. If you don't expect miracles, you'll probably get something positive out of it. If you're looking for a shortcut, you'll be disappointed - the same as most gimmicks/tricks that think circumventing DNA coding is possible.
 
Just a different kind of stress that's known to increase muscle in size. We can only guess what's happening in there and what exactly drives stress-induced compensatory growth to be able to target it optimally. But one thing is most likely for sure: body gets better at something when imposed under contrasted stimulus. Which is the reason behind HST. Decondition a muscle and hit it again with loads it's unaccustomed to. There's got to be a better way than the obvious "get stronger to get bigger". There's nothing wrong in getting stronger, it's an attractive and rewarding goal, I myself do it now in rack pulls ;) But this can't be the only way to grow muscle, there are surely natural tricks to do that.

"Get stronger to get bigger" is also a bit of an oversimplification. Logically, as long as something gets you to the end point (getting more muscular), it's a right thing to do. But it's not necessarily the best way. You can get from A to B by walking 100 meters forward and 100 meters the the left, 200 meters total, but you can also hit the straight line which would be square root of 100^2+100^2, which is 141 meters. Meaning that with a 141kg deads I can in the end be as muscular as a person doing 200 kg :D Hope you get my drift.
 
Last edited:
Just a different kind of stress that's known to increase muscle in size. We can only guess what's happening in there and what exactly drives stress-induced compensatory growth to be able to target it optimally. But one thing is most likely for sure: body gets better at something when imposed under contrasted stimulus. Which is the reason behind HST. Decondition a muscle and hit it again with loads it's unaccustomed to. There's got to be a better way than the obvious "get stronger to get bigger". There's nothing wrong in getting stronger, it's an attractive and rewarding goal, I myself do it now in rack pulls ;) But this can't be the only way to grow muscle, there are surely natural tricks to do that.

You're blinded by bias in this statement. No, I'm not picking another argument. But purely from the sake of logic, you're ignoring the fallacy of your statements.

Firstly, Exposure to new loads IS exactly what strength training is. It replaces SD with increasing the load. And if you apply the correct volume and frequency, choice of lifts and general workload, then you get bigger as well.

Are there other ways to get bigger? Probably, are they optimal? Not really. HST itself is just a periodised strength straining program that utilises deconditioning (which is just a form of extreme deloading).

Secondly, without sufficient stimulus (load), you aren't going to induce the physiological stimulus to build bigger muscles. There's no "trick" or shortcut here. You need to cause the damage to the muscle (stimulus) to make it grow. Deloading/deconditioning is a way to do that - as you note, the muscle is not sufficiently accustomed to the load and until it gets bigger, it won't be. Adding excessive volume is not a way to do that, and pretty much every experience of every bodybuilder/resistance trainee reflects that (e.g. 'bodypart splits' - whereby you designate one muscle group per day and hit it with 20-30 sets of various exercises).


Lastly, I'm curious as to why you feel "There's got to be a better way than the obvious "get stronger to get bigger" " ? I'm struggling to think of a rational explanation for why there would be a more efficent physiological explanation for this. The human body, as is the case for all of life, responds to stimulus. The physiological purpose of extra skeletal purpose is to make the body stronger - think in evolutionary terms; run faster, fight stronger, be more imposing/intimidating to potential threats, better protection of territory, more appealing to potential mates.

The stimulus to trigger the cascade for formation of that muscle is exposure to the need (move something heavy). Similar stimuli-response mechanisms are skin tanning/darkening, inflammatory responses, callus and thickened skin development, digestive responses to food being eaten and so on.

The most efficient (ala effectiveness relative to time spent) and natural mechanism to build more muscle is to expose it to the stimulus; increased load.

Are there are ways to grow muscle? Obviously. The most efficient in absolute terms is steroid use; just tell the DNA what to do without needing the external stimulus to cause an internal physiological stimulus (that then moderates the muscle building response). Lighter load-higher volume programs are effective up to a point, although just about every study published has indicated that the extra volume is superfluous.

Your question at the end of your statement is extremely puzzling; why do you think there are "natural tricks" that would be more efficient than the (thus far) proven mechanism to grow muscle (load progression)? I'm pretty sure that over a few million years that evolution nailed the best way to do it. Is it a case of us not figuring it out yet? I suppose that's always possible, although you're still missing any impartial evidence that training with lighter loads will induce a better response than training with heavier loads? The trick is to lift heavier than your muscles are accustomed/acclimated to.


Question: why are you afraid to get stronger in order to get bigger? This has always puzzled me. They're inextricably linked, though not linearly. You don't get muscular people who are weak, and you don't get absolutely strong guys who are small. Sure, power lifters and Olympic lifters perform difficult techniques with very good precision and they squeeze every measure of biomechanical energy they can out of those techniques; but they aren't small relative to their skeletons, even at lower weight classes. And furthermore, most have a problem with staying within their weight class, rather than struggling to gain size.
 
Thanks, I liked the ideas of HST because it tries to show us that getting ever stronger isn't required for growth - it's the acute (say 5kg at a time) change in load (after SD) that tricks a deconditioned muscle to grow. It seems that some kind of heavy weight (in absolute terms) is necessary to be sufficient. But this doesn't necessarily mean 200+ kg in deads.
 
Copying the second part of my posting that I edited later:

"Get stronger to get bigger" is also a bit of an oversimplification. Logically, as long as something gets you to the end point (getting more muscular), it's a right thing to do. But it's not necessarily the best way. You can get from A to B by walking 100 meters forward and 100 meters to the left, 200 meters total, but you can also hit straight from A to B ("hypotenuse") which would be square root of 100^2+100^2, which is just 141 meters. Meaning that with a 141kg deads I can in the end be as muscular as a person doing 200 kg :D Hope you get my drift.
 
Last edited:
Copying the second part of my posting that I edited later:

"Get stronger to get bigger" is also a bit of an oversimplification. Logically, as long as something gets you to the end point (getting more muscular), it's a right thing to do. But it's not necessarily the best way. You can get from A to B by walking 100 meters forward and 100 meters to the left, 200 meters total, but you can also hit straight from A to B ("hypotenuse") which would be square root of 100^2+100^2, which is just 141 meters. Meaning that with a 141kg deads I can in the end be as muscular as a person doing 200 kg :D Hope you get my drift.

Your Pythagoras analogy isn't the least bit apt, sorry bro. There's no reason why lifting heavier is the same as going the long way (100 + 100). Lifting lighter and relying on SD to re-sensitise you to now-ineffective loads is the long way.

You won't get maximum size gains from lifting lighter. It just doesn't work that way physiologically. I'm sure you can achieve some interim goals and steps along the way, but sooner or later you need to man up and just move some iron and push your capabilities. HST isn't designed to let you achieve the physique of someone twice as strong as you, it's designed to elicit as much hypertrophy as possible from each load your progress through. But the singular core principle will always remain load progression.
 
I think you're underestimating the role of SD + relative progression, and overestimating the role of strength gains for mass. Look at this guy who leaned from 115 kg to 94, I know him from another board.

lvym.jpg

He does look athletic, but nothing fancy, really. Can you tell this is the same guy doing 285x1 deads when he was fatter?

Bench 150kg x1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5FCZB9klkY
Squat 185kg x15 giant set http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb8Kg5EqQGQ
Deads 285kg х1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Numz4tX8E


If nothing else, I do believe this level of physique is possible with much lower loads. Strength is just that... strength. I increased my decent depth leg press from 170x10 to 240x10, and partials from 240x5 to 300x5 within same cycle. My legs didn't grow at all. I should've used bigger increments, and not be chasing strength gains.
 
Back
Top