Not sure if anyone will see this, so slow here for so long But, had to at least post this .... A member in a facebook lifting group sent me this article from someone in another country, it had some weird versions of science in it, and was talking about how they were analyzing Mike Mentzer's idea of low frequency hard training and how it led to some big 'performance' increases. And how Mike was mistaken though thinking it was directly related to better muscle growth vs just clearing fatigue, resetting anabolic resistance and spacing workouts for optimal total recovery, not optimal muscle growth. But, it was interesting. He also sent me this Russian webpage I had to translate going through similar ideas. He then emailed a coach who I think he said was in Russia, for more clarification and got some of his ideas on that. When all is put together, their ideas end up very similar to HST. Train frequently for a period, work up to heaviest RM and hardest effort only once every two weeks (two week blocks), back off , repeat (next 2 week block). After a time, take a total break from training for 1-2 weeks to reset anabolic resistance (SD). They got to this idea for different reasons and from a different path, but ended up pretty much at the HST principles. Just thought it was interesting, reminded me of when Dan created Max Stim and then Nicole from Germany showed up talking how similar it was to PITT-Force training
Yeah I'm still around hehe. I use a few forums on the Tapatalk app and always check in here regularly to see if there are new posts. Oh wow that sounds fascinating... good to see it's being researched and discovered by others that may not have even heard of HST. Must show how sound the principles are I reckon. And I do think Mentzer was onto something for sure, but yeah like you said, not in the way he may have thought.
I too check in but rarely see anything new. I have found that going to Abbreviated Training is now best for me at age 75. My goal is maintaining what I have worked 61 years to get for as long as possible and the extra rest is now more productive for me than volume. I now do 1/2 body Monday, 1/2 body Tuesday and a shortened high rep to failure and beyond on Friday. I feel much better with this approach. I have gone from about 60 total sets per week down to 25 sets per week but with higher intensity.
I think it’s important to distinguish natural vs enhanced. Mentzer had a provocative and curious mind. One of the (arguably inevitable) outcomes of his mindset was drug use; PEDs and ‘recreational’, including amphetmines (stimulants). My feeling is Mentzer was probably ahead of his time in terms of directing thought towards recovery, but for a younger-middle aged lifter, his frequencies have proven over time to be suboptimal.
I agree. A younger or very enhanced lifter typically needs a higher volume. HST has worked for me for at least 20 years and age and slowing down of recovery ability are the only reasons I have switched to a modified Abbreviated Training routine and certainly not one along the lines of Mentzer. His heavy-duty style would cause my joints and cartilages to explode. Then there are those genetic freaks like Yates. I recently saw a picture of him on the Abbreviated Training site on Facebook after training only 9 months and he looked better than I ever did or could strive to even if I had chosen to abuse steroids.
yeah what they were saying in the articles, is that where Mentzer's ideas fell flat, was the idea of zero training 'between the hard efforts', they purposed that maximal effort about every 2 weeks was good, but that less than maximal 'between' would be better. Interestingly, that's what a 2 week block in an HST cycle is like, only on the last day of each block are you using your actual RM for that rep range, so a maximal effort. They also put forth time off (same as SD), .
I tend to side with the weight of anecdotal evidence given the explosion of powerlifting (tested and untested) in the last decade. Block, conjugate and RPE based systems all work extremely well at making you big and strong. I saw a meme recently that said optimisation is: Upper-Lower twice a week Single @7-9 2x4 sets of 2-4 reps back off 1-3 accessory exercises for 2-3 sets of 8-15 reps Seems about right
[QUOTE="NWlifter, post: 263308, member: 39474" Just thought it was interesting, reminded me of when Dan created Max Stim and then Nicole from Germany showed up talking how similar it was to PITT-Force training[/QUOTE]Damn Ron that was so long ago. She was a trip though and what was his name, the one who "invented" PITT? Can't recall his name now.
Damn Ron that was so long ago. She was a trip though and what was his name, the one who "invented" PITT? Can't recall his name now.[/QUOTE] Legend sighting...get the Polaroid ready, folks.
Damn Ron that was so long ago. She was a trip though and what was his name, the one who "invented" PITT? Can't recall his name now.[/QUOTE] Hey Dan Where have you been Bud? Still working out? Bob
Hey Dan Where have you been Bud? Still working out? Bob[/QUOTE] Hello Old man. No I haven't in some time.
I know this is completely off topic but I just want to say how it warms my heart to see all of you here. I know it's been slow. But I still think this is the best place to go if you've got a serious question about bodybuilding science. You guys are the best!
Cool, that's nice of you to say, it's great you still pop in and post and such too. I agree, this is still the best place for good science talk and learning. maybe it'll get busier some day again.
