Sd Confirmed In Literature

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Jester, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

  2. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Good refreshers. It also should be pointed out that, for hypertrophy, periodic SD and, to a lesser degree, partial de-loading results in much less chance of injury than continuous training.
     
  3. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

  4. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    Rihad resurfaces. Where ya been man?

    Your question is valid and untested. However, I would give the nod to SD as it gives your muscles more time to recover fully which may help to prevent injury which would mean more muscle growth in the long term. Just a thought...no scientific proof.
     
  5. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I'm largely unconvinced that a trainee of true any intermediate-advanced-elite capacity is losing muscle after a two-three week break in non-fasted conditions (assuming you don't suddenly start marathon training etc.).
     
    Bulldog likes this.
  6. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    Would you (or anyone) be as strong as you were right after a 3 week long layoff with absolutely no resistance training of any kind during that time? Probably not, as depicted on the strength graph I mentioned. It would take you some time to recover it fully (much less than it once took you to get to that level from the level you would be at post-SD). I understand that muscle CSA isn't the only thing responsible for strength, which also includes neuromuscular coordination, but at least strength-wise the scenario would correlate with the one shown by the PTR group (who took 3 week long breaks). Whether you would manage to somehow keep the CSA while losing strength is a bit dubious to say the least. Extra muscle size that isn't being put to work is considered unneeded and wasted away. Make no mistake, I think it's very reassuring that we can take 3 week long complete breaks with no unrecoverable loss of muscle, but crediting such breaks with allowing us to progress further (compared with simple de-loads) is premature. The only thing you gain is the muscle you lost. Gaining new strength/muscle is still as slow as ever.
     
  7. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I do not think SD necessarily increases your ability to gain strength and/or hypertrophy in a direct fashion. However, the ability to achieve the same results whilst performing only 2/3s of the work is;

    a) Obviously an indication of efficiency of strength and hypertrophy training.
    b) Going to reduce your risk of injury by 1/3 (assuming properly periodised re-entry to training - whatever that may be).

    To be honest, powerlifters have been using SD in an adjusted fashion for however long there have been 'meet prep' periods. A deload to 50% is functionally the equivalent of an SD in my opinion (in the context of muscle, maybe not strictly connective tissue and skeletal structure). So if your final effective training bout is on the Friday before, and your meet is on the next Saturday; functionally a - day SD etc.
     
  8. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    I agree. Needless to say these are different reasons from the ones originally outlined by Bryan. It doesn't seem to work that way. Quick regaining of the muscle lost thanks to muscle memory was probably confused with new tissue growth. In reality the only sign that your muscles have most likely become a bit bigger is rep and/or load progression. You can just back-cycle down to the recalculated starting loads skipping SD altogether, duh. Higher rep loads might be all you need to encourage small injuries to heal, and at the same time allow CNS to recover from the higher loads. Besides, you get the beneficial satellite cell differentiation effects of higher rep training.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
  9. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    I have never lost any muscle size and very little strength in any 2-3 week SD. My muscles do, however, lose some of their work capacity. That allows one to continue gains with lower weights. Besides that, who would choose to work at a job for 40 hours per week when they can make the same pay working only 30 hours per week.
     
  10. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    It's difficult to visually judge what muscle size you have, as the body has a tendency to shift its partitioning away from LBM and stuff in more fat when not resistance training, even when BW stays the same. Those guys in the study had their CSA tested specifically, and they lost almost one half of their gains twice after 3 weeks of no training. That said, for older persons the rate of both gaining AND losing muscle might be a bit attenuated.
     
  11. leonardopm

    leonardopm Member

    Funny, I was browsing the web for PL resources and found this article 2 days ago. Really interesting. Better saying, the entire site has relevant resources.
     
  12. leonardopm

    leonardopm Member

    We shouldn't forget that taking 2-3 weeks off may be extremely beneficial to our minds and the mood, even better if we can match it with a trip or some vacation. At least one'll take his vacation without torturing himself by being off the weights.
     
  13. HST_Rihad

    HST_Rihad Active Member

    An excellent reason, and a useful one indeed, that has little to do with what Bryan believed/believes into SD.
    The fix is easy - just don't SD except when going on a trip :) At other times simply de-load back to the newly recalculated loads, making sure either them or the volume increase a bit.
     
  14. leonardopm

    leonardopm Member

    Agree.

    As Jester also pointed well, a 50% deload is probably very near a SD.
     
  15. leonardopm

    leonardopm Member

    So...talking about Greg Nuckols, did anybody buy his books Art of Lifting and Science of Lifting?
    His Strengtheory site is terrific, lots of good advice. I'd want to give a step further buying his books but at almost US$ 50 I need to make sure it worths the price.

    Greg has a very objective style of writing and his opinions and advices are very practical, at least for me.

    Anybody?
     
  16. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I haven't bought them but I've seen them.

    If you want to spend money on a lifting resource, I don't think you could find a better one.

    If you buy it now then you'll get the free update of 2nd edition in 3-4months time, that will clock out at 1,000 pages or so apparently.
     
    leonardopm likes this.

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