SD, is it really necessarily?

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Nils2u

New Member
Hi!

In some of the norwegian onlineforums there has recently been debatted heavily back and forth about the SD phase of HST.

What's your opinion on the SD phase? Do you do it, and is it really necessarily (for a 20 years old boy, whom eats and sleeps well)?

Best regards,
Nils2u
 
This is the most highly debated part of HST, SD definitely works, but for how long does it take the muscles to decondition has yet to be proven. Bryan seems to think that 9 to 14 days is enough, but personally I almost never SD because I don't think my muscles will decondition that much in such a short period of time. I think it would take much longer and atrophy would shrink my mucles too much. I mainly only use SD periods when I feel I need a rest or to heal my joints. etc.
 
i feel its neccessary for me,as i find the heavy poundages towards the end take there toll,so i like to either do cardio or just rest and eat for a week,and come back strong.
 
I don't know if most people actually "decondition" during a brief time off. However, there is no questioning the need and validity of it. Whether it's deconditioning so that you respond just as well as you did with almost the same weights - the idea of HST, or if it's simply a rest to let the muscles and CNS recover - it's still a good thing to have.

The time required seems to be rather different for everyone though. If I take off a week, I come back weaker, but refreshed and ready to work harder. So I actually do decondition. Others can take off a week or even two and come back stronger than before - so they are "recovered" instead of deconditioned.

Either way, whatever you get out of it, it prevents overtraining and damaging your muscles, tendons, CNS, and keeps workouts FUN.
 
some form of SD is probably needed by most its really just a matter of how often. some extend 5's and negs for weeks on end until they no longer get stronger or feel they need a break. others do 6-8 weeks and take 12 days off. its based on how your feeling and how your body is responding.

ill let others argue the science part but SD was what caught my interest about HST in the begining. i spent many yrs (pre HST) slowly discovering what worked best for me and i found that if i took a break from the gym every 8-10 weeks for about a week, mentally and physically i was refreshed and ready to go. if i didnt take the break i found by week 12 i lost signif. motivation and my lifts really stagnated or went backwards. after i found a link to HST and read about SD etc. it was like a bell was going off in my head and i knew then i had found a lifting concept/principle that was for me.

your exper could be completely differant. if youve done a cycle before then you probably ended it too soon or you wouldnt be asking the question. if you havent done one i would recommend the basic 6-8 week prog. to start and when you get to the end just eval how you feel. if your mentally/physically fatigued youll know what to do, if your not just keep going 1 w/o at a time until you need a break and then base future cycles on that.

good luck
 
I love SD! I did it for 20 years but now I've cut it down to a week.
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It works for me. After a month and a half of 5s I am usually suffering from several minor strains. A week away helps to get these mostly sorted and the 15s clear them up. Like bluejacket, I feel mentally refreshed and ready to head for new PBs.
 
Thanks for the answers.
Bluejacket: My last cycle was for 12w - pushing up my previous rm's pretty far.
Nonetheless, 4 days into this SD I feel like I could begin at my 2 weeks of 15s again.

Most of the reason for me to post this topic was that an experienced norwegian lifter recommended
either doing a week of light lifting (a pre 15's week) or going straight at the 15's,  instead of a full 7-14 days sd (which only would lead to muscle-atrophy)
 
It works great for me. If I take 9days off I get sore again about halfway through the 15s and I use about 50% of my 5RM as my first workout for 15s. I took a full two weeks off and the first workout nearly killed me. That tells me that my muscles cant handle the weight and therefore have been significantly deconditioned. I lose about 10% of my strength when I SD making my 3rd 5s workout feel like my 5rm but when I go in next time and increase the weight it feels like my 5RM again. This repeats until I hit my 5RM when cutting or 1-3 increments above my last 5RM when bulking, after which incrementing again and getting 5reps is not possible.
 
<div>
(Nils2u @ Oct. 26 2006,19:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks for the answers.
Bluejacket: My last cycle was for 12w - pushing up my previous rm's pretty far.
Nonetheless, 4 days into this SD I feel like I could begin at my 2 weeks of 15s again.

Most of the reason for me to post this topic was that an experienced norwegian lifter recommended
either doing a week of light lifting (a pre 15's week) or going straight at the 15's,  instead of a full 7-14 days sd (which only would lead to muscle-atrophy)</div>
nils2u

12 weeks is a decent stretch. did you feel as though you needed a break? if not, maybe go a little longer next cycle.

the 4 days in and ready to go is normal. to me its the most important part of SD....recharging your motivation and it gets you chomping at the bit to get back on it. 4 days down and 3-7 to go isnt really that bad.

7-14 days off leads to muscle atrophy...no. perhaps the process of the muscle begining to think about losing a small amount of the &quot;tone&quot; and some of the strength....perhaps but this is the type of thinking that has hampered serious lifting for yrs.

should we never go on vacation, take time off for work, kids, births, deaths or just a mental break all for the fear of muscle atrophy...just nonsense.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I love SD! I did it for 20 years but now I've cut it down to a week.</div>

Love you humour LOL!
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It is quite simple:

Good SD = Good results

Short SD or debriefing if not cutting = Mediocre results

No SD = Mostly bad results or no improvement.
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i like to sd for about 9 days but my cycle is normally 10 to 12 weeks,after my cycle i am normaly ready for a break mentally as well as physicly.
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SD is necessary in my opinion, not only for physiological reasons but for psychological reasons as well. As it has been already pointed out, the real question is when and for how long.

Anyway, my thoughts on the subject. When? When the gains have stalled, or when your joints just can't take it anymore. Ok, that was the easy part. For how long? Like Omega, I like to shoot for 2 weeks, just to make sure I have really deconditioned. I feel that just 1 week of SD does nothing.

Of course, the above doesn't mean you have to SD every 8 weeks. Go on for as long as you can before you &quot;call it a cycle&quot;.
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Regards,
Dimitris
 
''SD is necessary in my opinion, not only for physiological reasons but for psychological reasons as well. As it has been already pointed out, the real question is when and for how long.''

I agree with this. Almost every weightlfting programme out there recommends a break once in a while.

However, what I currently believe, and this is based on opinions I have read expressed by Dan and Ron, I'm no expert myself. Is that a 14 day SD is probably not enough to 'reset the RBE' and start growth again with the 15's. I'm against the idead that after 6 weeks of training, after you reach your 5RM, you have to SD or you wont get anywhere. Bryan has said he continues with the heavy weights until he feels sure growth has stopped or he has joint pain, feels overtrained etc. I hope I have his opinion down ok
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. After all, aren't we of the belief that you can still grow from the same weight for a couple of weeks until the muscle becomes conditioned. Even more so when we can can set new PB's and work with still heavier loads!!!
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.
 
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(style @ Oct. 27 2006,11:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">After all, aren't we of the belief that you can still grow from the same weight for a couple of weeks until the muscle becomes conditioned. Even more so when we can can set new PB's and work with still heavier loads!!!  
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Exactly!
I´m quite new to HST but still I know that we are all individuals and respond differently so how much SD someone needs might vary depending on a lot of factors.
How much RBE is accumulated
How old you are
Genetic differencies
Thats what I think
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Yup, I agree with Style and 9to5 although at present I find that 9 days seems to work fine for me.

What does seem to be becoming apparent is that folks react differently to SD. Some of this is no doubt down to how new a person is to training. It would seem that for a long-time trainer that a longer SD is more necessary.

After only a year and a bit of training (almost one year of HST) I find that if I take 9 days off for SD then my first 15s w/o is really hard and I get sore everywhere. I start with around 60% of my 5RMs. I may try jumping straight back into 15s at the end of this cycle just to see how I get on. I would be surprised if I got anywhere near as sore which would indicate that 9 days SD does cause some sort of deconditioning, if not a total RBE reset.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What does seem to be becoming apparent is that folks react differently to SD. Some of this is no doubt down to how new a person is to training. It would seem that for a long-time trainer that a longer SD is more necessary.</div>
Exactly.
 
(quote)from style
However, what I currently believe, and this is based on opinions I have read expressed by Dan and Ron, I'm no expert myself. Is that a 14 day SD is probably not enough to 'reset the RBE' and start growth again with the 15's. I'm against the idead that after 6 weeks of training, after you reach your 5RM, you have to SD or you wont get anywhere. Bryan has said he continues with the heavy weights until he feels sure growth has stopped or he has joint pain, feels overtrained etc. I hope I have his opinion down ok

thats why i take 12wks for my cycle.
also if you take 14days sd you could class the 15s as a type of deload so that would make 4wks
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I need it to reset my head as much as much as my muscles.
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You knowhte truism that, &quot;All work and no play makes...blah, blah blah.&quot;
 
IMO, if you're going to do the HST program...do it.

I am on SD now since 10/18 and will continue for the 13-14 days.

Sure, I'll be doing about 50-75% of my 5RM for a week when I start back. I know I'll bounce back soon enough, if I can just survive the first week of 15s.
 
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