SizeOn lab rat  :)

[bluejacket]

i remember your orig. post about considering sizeon. i see youve taken the plunge.

it will come as no surprise to you that im not the guinea pig type, at least as far as supps go. so much of what makes the supp. market go is aggressive advertising "get in loud, get your money and get out quick" type of thing. thousand of new product each yr. promise you the world yet within a short time they are either gone or "new and improved". the only supps worth anything have stood the test of time (pro. powder, bcaa, omega3 and even creatine). ironically (as i mentioned in orig. post) these are all found to some degree in the food you eat.

i realize your mainly focused on creatine products but they are certainly not immune from folks cashing in by spinning out all kinds of combo's. trust me, if its at all effective then it will still be around in 2-3yrs with a boatload of testimonials as well as believable research. if you can try and find a muscle mag. 3-5yrs old somewhere. see if you recognize 10% of the supps offered just a few yrs ago.

now this isnt to dissuade you from trying supps you want to. like i said before if you have an interest and think they'll help you then go for it, just 2 notes of caution.

1. dont fall for every hook you read. these folks are paid big $$$ to make you believe in what they offer. make no mistake, they are excellent at it.

2. your orig. post said you had diet and w/o dialed in. i hope that is true because it is 98% of what "getting bigger" is all about. you say you like analogies.... putting this much effort into supps if you dont have diet and w/o sorted out is like wanting a fast car but worrying about the color of the pinstripping and not addressing the engine, tires etc.

good luck

 

[quadancer]

Yeah, we all have the right to experiment if we want to, and who knows? Maybe this company is better than the others on the return policy.
As for creatine as being food, I had read an article on it in abcbodybuilding that stated that it actually acts as a transport assist to get food and water thru the cell walls, so nonresponders probably have their issue there - with the cell walls, or chemical transport systems. It's been a while.

Okay, I've done the research and looked it up here:
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/creatine%20myths%20and_facts.php

and a quick read:
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/creatineresearch2.php

 

[need2eat]

Hell, I have bb mags over 14 yrs old.  

 They can advertise as aggressive as they like, I haven't purchased or looked at, a  BB magazine in over 6 yrs, I focused on what people were saying on the forums, seems SizeOn was about the only thing that got brought up in the same sentence as nonresponder, that didn't contain stimulants of some sort and wasn't bound to an alcohol (which may or may not be more harmful than monohydrate).

Diet is in check, only thing Im even remotely interested in trying,  is creatine and variations of.

Only reason I have the ON's protein powder, well, I can drink a shake that actualy takes good or eat another half pound of $#@$%^ chicken.  I do this on off days, on days, I eat the chicken.  

Seriously folks, I talked with someone that actually knows what they are talking about, have my diet set up.  Otherwise,  I wouldn't take the time to eat every two hours.  I know its working, cause Ive been doing it for a few months now and the results are apparent. Now has the SizeOn worked, im still not convinced its the end all but hey, its only day 7.

Come on bluejacket, you know you wanna shell out the $12.85 and try the creatine tabs.  

 

[need2eat]

quadracer

Interesting article.

 

[bluejacket]

<div>
(need2eat @ Sep. 22 2006,19:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Come on bluejacket, you know you wanna shell out the $12.85 and try the creatine tabs.  

</div>
nah...i need the $12.85 for the food bill. now that im bulking again and plan to for awhile the bigger i get the more i gotta eat to get bigger. my two yr old is on 18yr bulk plan and the wife is starting to grumble about the grocery bill.

glad to hear about your diet. for many its one of the last things they look at instead of one of the 1st.

good luck

 

[need2eat]

Understandable bluejacket


Wouldn't it be worth the $12.85 if it assisted your efforts and put on 2-5 lbs of muscle?

So who wants to be the guinea pig?

Anyone?

 

[JonnyH]

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">JonnyH

Think of it like this, creatine is fuel.  It has to deplete when you use your muscles.  Think of your muslces as engines with fuel cells, your objective is to get from point a to point b without running out of fuel.  What everyone does is fill the tank aka add 5g once a day, top it off then empty it via physical exertion throughout the day.  Lets say your body/fuel cell can only absorb 1g at a time, next day, you put in 5g, absorb 1g, pis the rest out, wait, yesterday you used 2g.   Then what?</div>
Well even if we ignore the fact that the subjects they used probably werent absorbing as much creatine when they were measured because their stores were closer to being full anyway.

Their claim that your body is designed to only absorb 1.25g of creatine at one time doesnt add up, as the study they use previously to attempt to prove 48% of creatine is absorbed at one time states &quot;Our findings indicate that when supplementing with dosages of 0.1 g x kg(-1) lean body mass or between 6 and 8 g at a time, approximately half of the ingested creatine gets excreted&quot;
Half of 8g = 4g not 1.25g...so why are they claiming 1.25g is optimal. (maybe because thats how they sell it and are trying to be different from everyone else) Why bother with 4 servings of 1g if you can absorb 4g at one time.

To make sure your creatine stores are close to being full most of the time you simply take creatine before exercise with simple carbs to boost absorption and workout maybe a half hour after taking it so it is available in the blood stream. Then any creatine used during exercise is replaced afterwards. Then just take it on off days also to make up for the 0.03g/kg of bodyweight lost per day, makes sense to me.

 

[need2eat]

Actually, if I were selling the product and my results were 4g, I would try and sell you 4g, not 1.25g.

Actually, taking smaller doses more frequently makes more sense to me..haha..if anything, what you've stated, suggests to me taking 4g pre workout, then maybe 2g, evenly spaced out four(?) times a day, would be more effective than the single 5g maintenence dosage normally suggested. If we exercised, then went to sleep until we exercised the next day, the single maintenence dosage would make sense to me. I can't really see the need to take a dosage before and after a workout, as from what I read, the creatine levels in the blood didn't increase until an hour after consuming, so if that is correct, taking a dose before a workout, should arrive just in time at the end of the workout.


So JonnyH, wanna stop speculating and try something, give one of the alternate creatines a shot?

How bout this fellow skeptics:

CREATINE 23.99

with a little dextrose

DEXTROSE 3.25

Each has 200+ servings, that should last a while.

Any takers? No nonresponders looking to try something new?

 

[JonnyH]

lol well if enough creatine could be absorbed all at once, how would that make your supplement any different from anyone elses? You have to claim you've found the new latest amazing way to increase aborption etc etc
I dont see why youd need to take an extra 2g 4 more times a day if you can absorb more creatine at one time...if you replace what youve used up during exercise..the very slow gradual decrease in creatine levels that take place the rest of the day of maybe 1g isnt going to be the difference between a responder and non responder.

Makes far more sense that how you respond is related to your initial levels of creatine. If you already have enough in your diet taking a supplement of it isnt going to do anything for you, i dont think its as unknown as its made out to be seems pretty obvious.

 

[need2eat]

In all honesty, your probably right, but like everything else in life its all about the details.


If by taking that small amount through out the day, you ineffect accelerate your muscle repair/growth, even a small amount, over time, that in itself would add up and we both know the muscle building process takes time, so wouldn't it make sense to assist the body capability to do so, in every reasonable way?  Its kinda along the lines of why everyone consumes way more protein than they should, they do so, to be sure they get enough. Creatine fuels the muscles, you move, your gonna use fuel, period.   All these studies show creatine loss due to exercise, they don't offer any input as to how much is used through out a normal day.  


Kinda like, Im telling you to save your pennies but your saying you get a dollar once a day, so whats the point.  

Only one way to find out whos right and I plan to try my theory once the SizeOn has been used, actually considering breaking a serving down over the day..not sure yet.  Probably not accurate, cause a serving of SizeOn is a big ass scoop of product, where creatine is usually a teaspoon..haha


No ones feeling like trying anything new huh?

Lets see, Ive been on this for two weeks now, what I do know, if I take the SizeOn before bed as directed, two things happen, one, definitely gotta get up and use the bathroom in the middle of the night...haha.  Two, I wake up ready to do something, at that same time, when I wake up in the morning, I feel no different than I normally would.

Bodyweight has increased one lbs, no big deal.

Endurance increase, slightly yes.

Strength, not really.

Another oddity.  I mentioned my shoulder presses shown the most endurance increase, I woke up this morning, two days after workout day, and I could barely lift my arms, my shoulders were killing me, I find this to be strange, as previously mentioned, I don't normally get sore.  Definitely odd.  Only bodypart that feels this way, and Ive increased weight on all lifts, not just shoulders.

Another thought, were my diet didn't include any sweets, I find myself craving this crap like you couldn't imagine,  it has become my candy.  

Oh well, if it was priced along the lines of normal creatine, I would take it again but looks like im gonna try another (creatine) product next time.

 

[need2eat]

Honest, I had the idea before I found this link.

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/creatin....ade.htm


Im a man on a mission, huh?

Later

 

[need2eat]

Well folks, if anyone is still interested.  

Its day 10 of my SizeOn experience.

Im down to one workout everyother day now, as HST prescribes, increased my oat intake another 1/2 cup, as Ive hit a wall and gaining zero lbs.

Todays workout, actually went quickly, im on the 5's.  Doing three sets per bodypart, using same lbs for each set.

Shoulders finally stop hurting yesterday, jeez, they ached more than they felt sore, strange feeling.  Maybe its because im not in my 20's anymore...

Irregardless, I increased my shoulder press lbs today, knocked them all out easily, actually, all lifts went smoothly.  I looked back over my notes, three weeks ago, doing another routine, everything is up in lbs.  Keep in mind, I placed my lbs, on my final 5's workout,  a few lbs above what I could actually do at the time...I was optomistic.  

I was also up all night, I got the idea to take the SizeOn a couple hours before sleep, instead of directly before, hoping to help my sleep quality when taking this on off days before bed, big mistake, I was up all night.  Im gonna start taking it during the day, on off days, maybe break the serving up and take it throughout day.  Keep in mind, im sensitive to sugar intake, I can eat ice cream before bed and have dreams like I'm watching a movie, very realistic, I also wake up very tired when that happens.


The sweet taste of the berry flavor is getting old quick.  Id rather eat a piece of chicken than candy anyways, so maybe its just me. Other day I was craving the stuff, now, I wish I didn't have to drink it. Also found out, you mix berry SizeOn with ON's chocolate, tastes just like a chocolate covered cherry. Yep, tasted great at first, then eventually like pure crap, just like the real thing.


What I know:

Crazy pumps?  No

Sustained pumps longer than usual?  No

Increased endurance?  Yes, could be attributed to the sugar intake.

Stronger?  Yes,  could be attributed to proper diet and exercise routine.

I noticed yesterday that my muscles do seem to have a slighter thicker look, not sure that makes sense.  Don't get me wrong, I didn't turn green and tear my clothes, but its noticable, again, could be normal progression of my exercise/diet experience.

 

[need2eat]

Day 12

Its grown cold on the island and I've since adopted a volleyball as my friend, I call him wilson....

Seriously.


Not much to say, my heart just wasn't in it this morning, minds on alotta things, lifted anyway. Despite the fact, I woulda rather been doing anything else, all lifts went smooth, hell, despite the fact I raised the lbs on all lifts, I dare to say, all lift were easier today, than any other workout thus far. You'd think that woulda cheered me up, but no.

Instead of taking SizeOn before bed on my non workout day, I just took one serving, broken down into three servings, throughout the day. I must say, after the third and final shot of SizeOn, I definitely felt more energetic than I normally do in the evenings, coincidence? Possible. Don't misunderstand, I wasn't bouncing off the walls, but it was noticable.



As skeptical as I wanna be on this issue, I actually believe this product has helped my endurance and to some levels, ability to lift more effectively during my next workout, despite the weight increase.


Some may ask, in your last post, how the hell can you make the comment that your muscles appear fuller? Well, I measured my upper arm, it was up 1/4&quot;, last measurement was taken a month ago.





I think Ive found my next creatine to try, JonnyH, you'll like this one, its Kre-alkalyn, buffered creatine, dosage is nearly 1/5-1/2 that of monohydrate, supposedly that effective at getting the creatine into your bloodstream.



Anyone use it? Thoughts? Im told you can mix baking soda with micronized creatine to get the same effect but its rather inexpensive as it is, so Im just gonna go with a pre-mix. Some cases you can get 100 servings for $12, depending on how your cylce or consume creatine, that could last a person over 6 months, if you cycle a month on/month off, heck, three months and ten days for $12, thats cheap, considering, it might actually be effective.

Anyone?

 

[need2eat]

Found something that kinda backs up my theory...is it valid, I have no idea.  

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tallon2.htm

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You won't need to remember every detail from this article just the take home messages on loading. A regimen of 1.5 - 2 g per day 10 times a day for the first 48 hours followed by a maintenance dose of 1.5 - 2g 3x per day should see you achieve optimally Cr loaded muscles. The effects of adding insulin mimics to yet further this effect such as the use of 4-hydroxyisolucine, d-pinitol or even plain old carbs or protein are unknown, but may even further elevate uptake. </div>


This article goes against the mainstream thinking now:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drryan16.htm

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ingestion of 5g of creatine will show maximum blood level capacities in less than one hour and will last for several hours. Taking glucose with Cr will result in a reduced absorption.</div>

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The only way to improve the absorption of Cr is to inject it directly into the blood stream.</div>


Mainstream thinking suggests you need to add some simple sugar to creatine to increase absorption, via an insulin spike, maybe not??


With 24g of sugar, SizeOn's attempt at the insulin/creatine absorption trick, may be just that a failed attempt:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi5.htm

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There are a few ways to spike insulin. The first is the ingestion of lots of carbohydrates. In the original studies, a whopping dose of 93 grams of glucose was used to jack insulin levels way up into the supraphysiologic range and increase creatine uptake into the muscle (5). That's a lot of sugar. But that's what it took to enhance the creatine uptake. So if you're taking in less carbohydrate than this in an attempt to increase creatine uptake or your carbs have a low glycemic index, you're probably not getting insulin levels high enough to make a difference. </div>


If you read that article further, it suggests that carbs with protein increase insulin levels more so than carbs alone, I did mix protein powder with the SizeOn, on one occassion and didn't sleep too good that night...wonder why?

 

[need2eat]

Day 15


Well, appears no one cares.  

  So Im gonna sum this up.

My strength has surpasses my weekly strength increments.  Its that noticable, by what extent, I have no idea, but I can assure you, each workout seems to just get easier, and thats adding lbs per the HST program.

As I mentioned before, I actually went above and beyond my known personal bests on the 5's.  I hit those numbers a couple workouts ago.  Im gonna continue with the progression.


Two things that stand out more than any others.  Shoulders, definitely stronger than ever, period.  Chest, also stronger than ever.  I do dumbell bench press's with a slight incline, by pure neccessity, I had to jump my dumbell lbs 10lbs per side, I completed the 3X5 , with a smile.  This is well beyond my personal best with dumbells.  I tried it once (two months ago) and did one rep, so doing it 3X5 is a definite improvement.


So if you feel your a non responder like I did/do(?), give it a whirl.  Keep your expectations reasonable, your not gonna wake up a monster or start throwing massive amounts of weight around but IMO, its possible to exceed your normal ability by a small amount.


Is it worth it, thats up to you?  I hate the idea of being dependant on something to make me have that edge but.....thats life.


Good luck to anyone who tries it, feel free to post your results, as I am qurious how others react, I was hoping to get a few nonresponders into this creatine thing to experiment, but no takers.  

I would really like for someone to try the creatine gluconate alone and post the results, Im not sure if Im gonna try creatine gluconate by itself or kre-alkalyn.

 

[need2eat]

Well, I decided this might interest others, if anything its entertaining.


I give three days servings of SizeOn to someone I know, they recently started exercising a little in their free time, they don't have the best diet in the world or much time to lift weights.  However, they had a weeks vacation, so I give it to them.  I knew that would be about the only time hed have the ability to exercise three days in a row.   Keep in mind,  this isn't a kid or someone thats into bodybuilding, just a casual weight lifter, when he has time.

I kept this casual, told them all it was a product to help recovery, told them it didn't do much of anything else, just something good to take health wise.

First day I called, vaguely asked if they took the product, what did they think, reply, ah, its tasted ok, thats about it.  Continued to talk about other things.
Second day, simillar conversation.
Third day, I didn't call.
Fourth day, I asked if they took the last serving of product the day before.  Reply yes, I left it at that.  Began talking about other things.  Towards the end of the conversation, he asks, why did you give me this stuff, to only get me hooked?  I asked what do you mean?  He stated that his bench felt much much easier, very noticable.  He even asked for the source so he could order more.  Keep in mind, he hasn't taken a supplment in his life, nor has/had any interest in doing so, if it wasn't for my suggesting he take this, he wouldn't have.

Take that info as you like, it proves nothing.  It just took me by suprise.

Before you get the idea that im trying to promote something, take this into consideration. Im a member on the larger BB forums, if I wanted to blow smoke to a bunch of kids willing to blow cash on anything, I woulda posted there, as there are many SizeOn supporters.  This board is small, and as you all have proven, full of supplement skeptics, much like myself.  

  Just want you to understant, Im genuine in my replies, no BS.




Also like to add, as far as the taste of the berry flavor,  Ive liked it, then hated it, but Ive gotten used to it.  There are other flavors, many from what I have read  dislike the berry flavor.  

On the issue of taking the product before bed and my inability to sleep.  Actually, I would fall asleep fine but two-four hours later, id wake up ready to get my day started, at 2am thats not reasonable.  

 I started taking half the product during the day, then the other half before sleep, remedied that issue.

Can't say I will ever use this product again but I would say its worth giving it try.

Later

 

[Omega_man]

Hello N2e,
I appreciate the effort you have put toward this. I have a container of SizeOn I have yet to open &amp; have been flowing your research. I realize your replies are truly sincere &amp; are for the benefit of others here in the forum.

Thanks for the time &amp; effort

 

[need2eat]

Im so jaded when it comes to communication and the internet, I can no longer tell a smart a$$ from someone whos being sincere.  

I double check my bodyweight records, for those who may or may not care.

From 9/2 to 9/17 my bodyweight was the same.

I started HST on 9/11 and started SizeOn 9/15, today (10/9) I weighed 6lbs more.

The only other addition besides SizeOn, I added two servings of rice to my diet, also on workout days, I added an extra potato.  Otherwise, my diet was consistant before HST and SizeOn.

I added 5 lbs per dumbell, on my incline db bench today, last set/rep was a struggle but I completed it.

Shoulder press is still going strong, as with most other movements, still much room for lbs to add.

Qurious, how far does everyone take the 5's, it says to stop when you can no longer ad lbs, is that add lbs to one exercise or two or ??, how many exercises should reach their lbs max before I start the strategic deconditioning, which Im not looking forward too?  

And everyone thought I wrapped this bad boy up.  

Side note, I have a bottle of kre-alkalyn in front of me now (for those that don't know, its BUFFERED CREATINE!!)  SizeOn is about gone, should it run out before I reset the HST, IM gonna go ahead and start the kre-alkalyn, should my lbs get easier, then it would be a clear indication that its effective, possibly moreso than the SizeOn, but until that day comes, who knows, IM just daydreaming??

BTW, anyone try kre-alkalyn from sci-fit, powder form?  This stuff had a strong unpleasant odor when I first opened it, the more I open it the less noticable it is, keep opening it thinking, no really go ahead and take it..haha, this smell isn't protein powder or multivitamin stink, its bad, I expected it to be fairly odorless, I posted on another forum but Ive received mixed replies, Im placing a call to sci-fit here in a few.  Just wondering what everyone else thought.

later

 

[Omega_man]

I was being sincere if you were really wondering

 

[need2eat]

Works for me Omega_man, best of luck with your SizeON experience, post your results if you wish, I will read it.



I sure hope this kre-alkalyn works, the company recommended 1/4 tsp twice a day...wow...as compared to a big old scoop of SizeOn reinforced cool-aid...sounds great...if it works.  

Also the smell of kre-alkalyn, the company I purchased from stated that was normal.

I also contacted the makers of kre-alkalyn, just to be on the safe side.  Interesting, seems all kre-alkalyn, irregardless of supplier, comes from one manufacturer.  I contacted a company and they verified that.




For those that are detail oriented and trying to figure out how I added 5lbs to my db bench when earlier I said I had to jump 10lbs per side. Well, I noticed some ankle weights laying in the corner, knocked the dust off them and weighed them...yep...strapped those suckers to my wrists...hows that for dedication...?

Later