Guys, I have been experiencing bad sleep timing lately and I was wondering if it does give an impact on growth. Like last night, I couldnt sleep well almost the whole night. I slept at 3am and then woke up at 4.30 am because of the hot temperature and mosquitoes, so I went to watch TV because I cant sleep! and after that I slept again at 6am and woke up again at 10.30am and I had problem sleeping right away, If you count it, I only got like 5 hours of sleep, so then I slept at 2.30pm that afternoon woke up again at 3.30pm to go to the toilet and then I went back to sleep again and woke up at 4.30pm to get the 8 hours of sleep. Its really bad, people in my house aren't very cooperative with me when I told them I need to sleep well. This is because they don't do bodybuilding and they dont have problem to sleep anytime they want. For me, if I can't sleep anytime I want, my body has its own biological clock that resets my sleep timing every time I slept late, meaning, the later I sleep that night, the later I'm gonna sleep the next day. Meaning If I sleep at 3am that night, and woke up 8 hours later, I can only sleep back at 3am again the next night. I'm not like normal people, normal people can sleep again at 10pm the next night even if they slept at 3am the night before and woke up 8 hours later. For me this thing goes on until I do sleep deprivation which is gonna be torturing and make me get little sleep for a day. I can't workout on that day due to lack of sleep. I follow the normal eating time though last night. Means I ate 6 meals in between my sleeping time above.
Sleeping time
- Thread starter Xerobeat
- Start date
Without even reading your sleep issues in this post, I have one very important thing to say....
Optimal muscle growth is dependent upon three things:
1) Training
2) Diet
3) Recovery
Most people get #1 correct. You can grow from most training programs granted you have #2 and #3 down pat. Diet is usually considered half of the game plan, but, any more, I think recovery plays an even bigger role. Recovery is not the amount of time you give yourself until your next workout - that is part of your training program. Recovery is the amount of sleep you get. Most people do not sleep enough, so the more you get the better, for the most part. Another part of recovery is stress management. If your body is stressed in any way (mental stress, physical stress from being sick/hurt), then it goes into self defense mode by raising cortisol levels. Cortisol is a hormone that I still do not know much about. I do know one thing though... cortisol will prevent you from having good muscular gains or fat loss. It regulates your body to have more fat on it. Logic tells me that this is a self defense mechanism because the body believes you need more food to handle the stress, and/or it thinks food intake is coming to a low.
Either way, take care of those three things and you will be fine.
Optimal muscle growth is dependent upon three things:
1) Training
2) Diet
3) Recovery
Most people get #1 correct. You can grow from most training programs granted you have #2 and #3 down pat. Diet is usually considered half of the game plan, but, any more, I think recovery plays an even bigger role. Recovery is not the amount of time you give yourself until your next workout - that is part of your training program. Recovery is the amount of sleep you get. Most people do not sleep enough, so the more you get the better, for the most part. Another part of recovery is stress management. If your body is stressed in any way (mental stress, physical stress from being sick/hurt), then it goes into self defense mode by raising cortisol levels. Cortisol is a hormone that I still do not know much about. I do know one thing though... cortisol will prevent you from having good muscular gains or fat loss. It regulates your body to have more fat on it. Logic tells me that this is a self defense mechanism because the body believes you need more food to handle the stress, and/or it thinks food intake is coming to a low.
Either way, take care of those three things and you will be fine.
Try Melatonin. Has worked great for me, especially when I had to travel 6 to 12 time zones to go to work.
Meaning sleep timing does have an effect on growth. Especially due to the stress of not able to keep up with daily routine.
Old and Grey - Your job is one example of how my sleep timing is like, except im not going to work, it just happens at home. How is your growth keeping up with the time zone changes? I really do not want to turn to drugs on this. My problem with sleep is usually my biological clock and my sleeping environment. Most of the time I'm able to take care of it, but for this time, I really can't change the weather man lol. I think its global warming right now, it was so hot last night.
Old and Grey - Your job is one example of how my sleep timing is like, except im not going to work, it just happens at home. How is your growth keeping up with the time zone changes? I really do not want to turn to drugs on this. My problem with sleep is usually my biological clock and my sleeping environment. Most of the time I'm able to take care of it, but for this time, I really can't change the weather man lol. I think its global warming right now, it was so hot last night.
TunnelRat
Active Member
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(Xerobeat @ May 02 2008,9:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I think its global warming right now, it was so hot last night.</div>
It's not global warming; it's that you're right on the equator...! It's supposed to be hot.
Try some Valerian root along with the melatonin. If it works for old geezers like O&G and me, it should help you, too.
(Xerobeat @ May 02 2008,9:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I think its global warming right now, it was so hot last night.</div>
It's not global warming; it's that you're right on the equator...! It's supposed to be hot.
Try some Valerian root along with the melatonin. If it works for old geezers like O&G and me, it should help you, too.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Optimal muscle growth is dependent upon three things:
1) Training
2) Diet
3) Recovery
</div>
I agree with the above. But rest is also quantity not just quality. So 3 days is more restful than 1 day.
I would also like to say that in addition to a proper training programme, being able to do exercises correctly, w/ full ROM and safely is just as important as the above. If you neglect correct form, you set yourself up for injury.
1) Training
2) Diet
3) Recovery
</div>
I agree with the above. But rest is also quantity not just quality. So 3 days is more restful than 1 day.
I would also like to say that in addition to a proper training programme, being able to do exercises correctly, w/ full ROM and safely is just as important as the above. If you neglect correct form, you set yourself up for injury.
I'll add that we have a great sleep thread in here too. I've not had any luck with the valerian or melatonin; it seems that when I'm insomnial it just is. My methods involve first trying to get very comfortable and focusing on that, reveling in my "time off" and trying to think other pleasant thoughts.
After that doesn't work, I decide it's time to change channels. TV is too risky (mental involvement/excitement) so I usually boot this thing up and plan on losing about an hour, reading mail and studying a bit. After sitting in this chair that long, the bed feels really good and I go back to method #1. Occasionally this doesn't work
If I'm really off the beam and still can't go down, I drag out a book like "Knowledge and Nonsense" that takes some mental focus and isn't TOO exciting and that does the trick in about 15 minutes or so. Well, depending on what chapter I'm reading...
The guys are right; sleep is as key as exersize. They grow in jail on bad diets due to getting a lot of it. Or so I'm told by inmates. Another thought is the catnap. There is some release of GH when you hit that lunch quickie.
After that doesn't work, I decide it's time to change channels. TV is too risky (mental involvement/excitement) so I usually boot this thing up and plan on losing about an hour, reading mail and studying a bit. After sitting in this chair that long, the bed feels really good and I go back to method #1. Occasionally this doesn't work
If I'm really off the beam and still can't go down, I drag out a book like "Knowledge and Nonsense" that takes some mental focus and isn't TOO exciting and that does the trick in about 15 minutes or so. Well, depending on what chapter I'm reading...
The guys are right; sleep is as key as exersize. They grow in jail on bad diets due to getting a lot of it. Or so I'm told by inmates. Another thought is the catnap. There is some release of GH when you hit that lunch quickie.
QuantumPositron
New Member
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/conditioning/a/aa062800a.htm
Aside from the products thus advised, I would add magnesium. It helps the nervous system. You can use Tylenol PM to really knock yourself down. Some people take it nightly. I prefer to use it only when necessary. Everyone has a different response.
Another thing: turn your room into the bat cave. Use blankets or towels or buy block-out curtains. Keep all clocks out of sight (I unplugged mine and tossed it in the closet. I just check my watch now if I want to know). Turn off your cell phone. And, if you can, use your bedroom for sleeping, dressing, and, well you get the point. No TV, vid games, reading (barring it doesn't help you go to sleep). When you have roomates (I do too), this is the ideal. Of course you need it for other things. But for anyone else reading this, consider the advice above.
The thing about having trouble with getting to bed when you want to - my experience is its part mental, part training (or lack of training), and to some extent biological. I'm not disagreeing that you have a problem there of being stuck at 3 am. That sucks. Before you rule out that your body is impossible though, consider alternative explanations. If you tell yourself you can't sleep, you won't. Whatever you carry with you to bed at night stays with you. That's part of why training yourself to relax at night can work so well. If you want relaxation training, look it up. Also read the Relaxation Response. The skill will serve you very, very well for the rest of your life.
When it comes to noise, I am with you all the way. If a bird lands outside my window and chirps I am instantly awake. Now that I think about, I think I'll put a dummy owl out there from now on. Anyway, I did this internship once for a paper mill that, like all mills, operated 24/7. They gave me free housing - 1/2 a mile away. Trains, steam stack eruptions, trucks coming and going...you get the picture. My solution was ear plugs. You can get them at any drug or general store that would carry toiletries. The best are foam because you can cut them and once you get used to em, they don't feel so funny. Another option is to drowned out noise by making "white noise." White noise is less disturbing. Classic example is running a fan. Because the sound stays constant its easy to adjust to and it helps attenuate loudness from outside the room. Combined with ear plugs it could work.
My mother always put pillows over her head.
You can try Sleep phones or a similar product: http://www.sleepphones.com/home
It helps to not get agitated when you hear loud noise. You can train yourself to partially or totally filter out some if not most noise. I'm not perfect at it but I've had some success. I knew a guy who trained himself to sleep while standing at ease during inspection (he was in the Navy).
If you are in your late teens or early twenties, congrats, you are naturally prone to staying up late.
Aside from the products thus advised, I would add magnesium. It helps the nervous system. You can use Tylenol PM to really knock yourself down. Some people take it nightly. I prefer to use it only when necessary. Everyone has a different response.
Another thing: turn your room into the bat cave. Use blankets or towels or buy block-out curtains. Keep all clocks out of sight (I unplugged mine and tossed it in the closet. I just check my watch now if I want to know). Turn off your cell phone. And, if you can, use your bedroom for sleeping, dressing, and, well you get the point. No TV, vid games, reading (barring it doesn't help you go to sleep). When you have roomates (I do too), this is the ideal. Of course you need it for other things. But for anyone else reading this, consider the advice above.
The thing about having trouble with getting to bed when you want to - my experience is its part mental, part training (or lack of training), and to some extent biological. I'm not disagreeing that you have a problem there of being stuck at 3 am. That sucks. Before you rule out that your body is impossible though, consider alternative explanations. If you tell yourself you can't sleep, you won't. Whatever you carry with you to bed at night stays with you. That's part of why training yourself to relax at night can work so well. If you want relaxation training, look it up. Also read the Relaxation Response. The skill will serve you very, very well for the rest of your life.
When it comes to noise, I am with you all the way. If a bird lands outside my window and chirps I am instantly awake. Now that I think about, I think I'll put a dummy owl out there from now on. Anyway, I did this internship once for a paper mill that, like all mills, operated 24/7. They gave me free housing - 1/2 a mile away. Trains, steam stack eruptions, trucks coming and going...you get the picture. My solution was ear plugs. You can get them at any drug or general store that would carry toiletries. The best are foam because you can cut them and once you get used to em, they don't feel so funny. Another option is to drowned out noise by making "white noise." White noise is less disturbing. Classic example is running a fan. Because the sound stays constant its easy to adjust to and it helps attenuate loudness from outside the room. Combined with ear plugs it could work.
My mother always put pillows over her head.
You can try Sleep phones or a similar product: http://www.sleepphones.com/home
It helps to not get agitated when you hear loud noise. You can train yourself to partially or totally filter out some if not most noise. I'm not perfect at it but I've had some success. I knew a guy who trained himself to sleep while standing at ease during inspection (he was in the Navy).
If you are in your late teens or early twenties, congrats, you are naturally prone to staying up late.
<div>
(QuantumPositron @ May 02 2008,9:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> If a bird lands outside my window and chirps I am instantly awake. Now that I think about, I think I'll put a dummy owl out there from now on.</div>
Wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube man?
(QuantumPositron @ May 02 2008,9:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> If a bird lands outside my window and chirps I am instantly awake. Now that I think about, I think I'll put a dummy owl out there from now on.</div>
Wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube man?
scientific muscle
New Member
I don't know about you guys but I sleep a ton when training hard. And since I am almost always training hard, I sleep a lot almost every day.
I would guesstimate I sleep an average of 9 hours/night. And when I don't get enough sleep, I take naps.
Sleep is definitely important to nervous system recovery as well as tissue repair and growth.
I would guesstimate I sleep an average of 9 hours/night. And when I don't get enough sleep, I take naps.
Sleep is definitely important to nervous system recovery as well as tissue repair and growth.
I get about 6 hours sleep a night although I could do with more. It hasn't stopped me gaining but I know I lift better if I am more rested. If I get less than 6 hours I'll try to get a nap in the afternoon before training if at all possible.
Right now it's 3:20am and I have to be up quite early so I'm not going to get 6 hours tonight. I have to squat tomorrow too.
=============
I actually managed to get 6 hours and if it hadn't been for the phone I might have had a bit more! QP's right, unplug the phone if you need some extra sleep as someone is bound to call you up.
Right now it's 3:20am and I have to be up quite early so I'm not going to get 6 hours tonight. I have to squat tomorrow too.
=============
I actually managed to get 6 hours and if it hadn't been for the phone I might have had a bit more! QP's right, unplug the phone if you need some extra sleep as someone is bound to call you up.
For clarification (adapted from other sources):
Melatonin, 5-methoxy-N-acetyltryptamine, is a naturally occurring hormone found in most animals and humans. It is not a synthetic only drug, per se. Melatonin plays a role in the regulation of the circadian rhythms of several biological functions. Many biological effects of melatonin are produced through activation of melatonin receptors, while others are due to its role as a pervasive and powerful antioxidant with a particular role in the protection of nuclear and mitochondrial DNA.
Products containing melatonin have been available as a dietary supplement in the United States since 1993, and met with good consumer acceptance and enthusiasm. However, over-the-counter sales remain illegal in many other countries including some members of the European Union and New Zealand, and the U.S. Postal Service lists melatonin among items prohibited by Germany.
The use of additional melatonin can entrain the circadian clock to changing environmental cycles and can have beneficial effects for treatment of certain insomnias.
I never used to sleep more than 5 hours and experienced slow growth. Now I sleep 8 to 9 hours, even though it is often said that you sleep less as you age, and experience much greater growth with the extra sleep.
My non-scientific conclusion:
Sleep and recovery are very important growth stimuli.
Melatonin enhances sleep quality.
The use of any alcohol, even one drink, reduces the quality of my sleep and negatively impacts workouts the following day. That was not the case when I was younger and had a "virgin" liver.
Melatonin, 5-methoxy-N-acetyltryptamine, is a naturally occurring hormone found in most animals and humans. It is not a synthetic only drug, per se. Melatonin plays a role in the regulation of the circadian rhythms of several biological functions. Many biological effects of melatonin are produced through activation of melatonin receptors, while others are due to its role as a pervasive and powerful antioxidant with a particular role in the protection of nuclear and mitochondrial DNA.
Products containing melatonin have been available as a dietary supplement in the United States since 1993, and met with good consumer acceptance and enthusiasm. However, over-the-counter sales remain illegal in many other countries including some members of the European Union and New Zealand, and the U.S. Postal Service lists melatonin among items prohibited by Germany.
The use of additional melatonin can entrain the circadian clock to changing environmental cycles and can have beneficial effects for treatment of certain insomnias.
I never used to sleep more than 5 hours and experienced slow growth. Now I sleep 8 to 9 hours, even though it is often said that you sleep less as you age, and experience much greater growth with the extra sleep.
My non-scientific conclusion:
Sleep and recovery are very important growth stimuli.
Melatonin enhances sleep quality.
The use of any alcohol, even one drink, reduces the quality of my sleep and negatively impacts workouts the following day. That was not the case when I was younger and had a "virgin" liver.
I have taken Melatonin for close to 20 years. I started when I was in my early 40's and working on 6 different continents throughout the year. I have been on HRT for 3 or 4 years. I found no significant boost in my sleep time on HRT although my energy levels certainly increased with the same amount of sleep. I have tried Valerian Root as TR suggested but found it left a bad aftertase in my mouth although it worked well for inducing sleep.
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(TunnelRat @ May 03 2008,6:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Whenever I can't get to sleep, I just sign on here and try to decipher one of Dan's posts about AmpK, IGF1, and grehlin, and mitochondria and....ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz</div>
That's the oldest trick in the book. Works like a charm. Keyboards make darn uncomfortable pillows though so print some stuff out and keep it by your bed.
(TunnelRat @ May 03 2008,6:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Whenever I can't get to sleep, I just sign on here and try to decipher one of Dan's posts about AmpK, IGF1, and grehlin, and mitochondria and....ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz</div>
That's the oldest trick in the book. Works like a charm. Keyboards make darn uncomfortable pillows though so print some stuff out and keep it by your bed.