slowing down reps

J

jwbond

New Member
I read recently in a Men's Health that doing reps too quickly works tendons more than needed and muscles not enough. I recall being a bit surprised when trying Brian's Pod fitness program, as I THOUGHT I was going slow enough, but found out that I was quicker than the count by the pretty lady on my headphones.


I know you need an increased load to create hypertrophy, but now that my shoulder tendons aren't as strong as they use to be I am starting lean towards having 100% correct form and tempo, rather than ALMOST perfect form and a slightly too quick tempo.


I tried doing a much slower tempo today for my 15s after a 10 SD (1 sec up, Full 2 secs down). I was very surprised how light of a weight I had to use, but still feel like I got a decent workout.


Has anyone else experimented with this? What are your thoughts?
 
IMO, longer TUT would lead to quicker fatigue and minimize hypertrophy. Super slow reps was debunked a while ago too.
 
More force I would think would equal more recruitment...however it could equal more injuries as well.

But if you are comparing apples to oranges I think a faster tempo would do better than slow tempo.

You can go slow with a soup can on side laterals and get a burn but you are not accomplishing much!
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(Joe.Muscle @ Jul. 08 2007,21:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You can go slow with a soup can on side laterals and get a burn but you are not accomplishing much!
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hah! good point, but I am referring more so to the optimum tempo and saying that myself and others might be better off slowing down a little.

If it is true that faster reps make use of tendons more than muscles than there must be a point where you are going the fastest possible while not using the tendons too much.

Bryan's Podfitness programs were about 1 sec up and 2 sec down...were they not timed exactly how he wanted them or has science proven that fast (yet controlled) is best? (e.g. explode up, 1 sec down)
 
I'm a fan of imitating natural movement. When you jump for example, you assume a bent legged position in a controlled manner before exploding upwards. The same applied to weights training IMO. A controlled negative with an explosive positive. I have also experimented with TUT etc but it is my opinion now that TUT is overcomplicating a simple task for questionable benefit and possible detriment. Pick a weight that is heavy enough to challenge you with the required rep range and the rest will follow.
 
It's not too hard to figure; you are trying to move a load, building up to a max load. During this time, you are trying to perform a maximal amount of tonnage without overdoing it, and if your reps are too slow, you won't move as much weight...and if your reps are too fast, you may move more weight, but it won't be your muscle footing the bill; it's momentum, and perhaps your joints.
Either way you cheat yourself, and finding the sweet spot is what it's about, keeping good form all the way. As for all that second counting stuff, it doesn't work the same for different exersizes. You can't compare a squat to a curl.
As for explosives, I think one should train with them, but not constantly.
The bottom line is always about work done.
 
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(jwbond @ Jul. 08 2007,09:35)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Jul. 08 2007,21:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You can go slow with a soup can on side laterals and get a burn but you are not accomplishing much!
biggrin.gif
</div>
hah!  good point, but I am referring more so to the optimum tempo and saying that myself and others might be better off slowing down a little.

If it is true that faster reps make use of tendons more than muscles than there must be a point where you are going the fastest possible while not using the tendons too much.

Bryan's Podfitness programs were about 1 sec up and 2 sec down...were they not timed exactly how he wanted them or has science proven that fast (yet controlled) is best?  (e.g. explode up, 1 sec down)</div>
If we are talking tempo like 2-1-2 then I definatly agree.
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I thought we were talking about super slow rep training which became very popular two or three years ago.

I am always in favor of controlled tempo...due to myself expierencing an injury doing herky jerky movements 6 or so years ago!
 
Regarding explosives, if you are challenging yourself with the weight on the bar, you are trying to &quot;explode&quot; but the bar is moving slowly regardless. Anything less than maximum effort may see the bar fail to move at all!
 
Quote from Dan over at his forum on the subject :

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> Yes there is scientific evidence that points to increased speed of shortening causing what's called &quot;doublet&quot; firing, this has shown to cause positive increases in rate coding, something that has benefits. What's been seen is the maximal firing rate was significantly higher and the force at which the motor units were recruited was significantly lower for motor units that fire doublets than those that do not. This was irrespective of MVC. Now granted once into the heavy weights the speed of shortening is going to lessen, and it should as the force/velocity curve shows us. So when I speak of &quot;as fast as possible&quot; speed of shortening I am mostly talking about the lighter'ish weights where this becomes important.

The eccentric speed is also scientifically proven to provide a greater response as well, if faster. But, I simply say use a controlled eccentric because I would rather someone keep it controlled than worry too much about the speed and end up getting injured, which we all know does squat for hypertrophy or strength </div>
 
i think dan has some studies on his site that show with lighter or submax weights, the faster you lift it the more hypertrophy,and you must work nearer to faliure.
 
as regard to tempo,durin the 15's i tend to keep a smooth steady movement with no pause(no lockout) at all.but as i head down to the heavy 5's,i tend to go slowly on the concentric phase and then slightly faster on the eccentric phase,this way i avoid excessive strain/bounce at the bottom of the movement lessening the chance of injury.but fast enough on the way up to enable good recruitment of muscle fibres.this suits me fine i guess.
 
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(faz @ Jul. 09 2007,10:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">i think dan has some studies on his site that show with lighter or submax weights, the faster you lift it the more hypertrophy,and you must work nearer to faliure.</div>
id agree,i tend to go closer to failure on the lighter/high rep exercises.
 
I go as fast as possible while under control. Muslces are made to move quickly. Of course quickly is relative. I can clean 135 very fast, while my 315 deadlift is extremely slow no matter how hard I contract my muscles.
 
Exactly what Sci said. Power production is an important part of muscle function. Lifting a weight quickly requires more power than lifting it slowly even though you might use more energy lifting it slowly because you are burning fuel all the while you are holding up the load. When a load is really heavy, even if you go as fast as you can, it'll still be a slow movement compared to the speed you could move a lighter load. And as Icars mentioned, it's usually a good idea to be careful when lowering a heavy load by going a bit more slowly, thus avoiding possible injury due to excessive stretching and strain during turnaround. A bit of bounce is OK (once you are warmed up) but always under control.
 
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(Lol @ Jul. 09 2007,21:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Exactly what Sci said. Power production is an important part of muscle function. Lifting a weight quickly requires more power than lifting it slowly even though you might use more energy lifting it slowly because you are burning fuel all the while you are holding up the load. When a load is really heavy, even if you go as fast as you can, it'll still be a slow movement compared to the speed you could move a lighter load. And as Icars mentioned, it's usually a good idea to be careful when lowering a heavy load by going a bit more slowly, thus avoiding possible injury due to excessive stretching and strain during turnaround. A bit of bounce is OK (once you are warmed up) but always under control.</div>
x 2
 
<div>
(Lol @ Jul. 09 2007,21:51)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Exactly what Sci said. Power production is an important part of muscle function. Lifting a weight quickly requires more power than lifting it slowly even though you might use more energy lifting it slowly because you are burning fuel all the while you are holding up the load. When a load is really heavy, even if you go as fast as you can, it'll still be a slow movement compared to the speed you could move a lighter load. And as Icars mentioned, it's usually a good idea to be careful when lowering a heavy load by going a bit more slowly, thus avoiding possible injury due to excessive stretching and strain during turnaround. A bit of bounce is OK (once you are warmed up) but always under control.</div>
ditto
 
Sprinters have large calves, quads, hams and glutes. Cyclists sprinters have even larger quads. Maybe, just maybe there's a link between power and size. Perhaps the factor here is not simply time under tension, perhaps it's time under tension over time.
 
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(Martin Levac @ Jul. 10 2007,09:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Sprinters have large calves, quads, hams and glutes. Cyclists sprinters have even larger quads. Maybe, just maybe there's a link between power and size. Perhaps the factor here is not simply time under tension, perhaps it's time under tension over time.</div>
Yes and it's called the Time Tension Index or integral.

IOW, the higher tension, the less the time the fiber can fully activate and vice versa, the longer the time it'c alled to contract the lower the tension it can acheive for this duration.

Therefore it may be more advantageous to cause full activation repeatedly but for shorter durations than to submaximally activate the fiber for longer duration.
 
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